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10-02-2009, 07:34 PM
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#41 |
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Banned
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 715
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GrafSelesfan, After reading this diatribe, I simply had to respond..
You obviously know your way around google.. But in saying that, you obviously have the same desire as any other "fanatic" to simply just pick and choose what you want in order to make your argument seem credible. Andrew I assume was being broad in his statements in regards to Court. She was dominant for the time she played. But in saying that, so is Roger, but even he loses some, as we have seen at the US Open recently.. I will also state that the women's field of Courts day were a little stronger than that of the men's today in all honesty.. But I commend you for just picking through Court's career and just finding a loss here and there and centering your argument around it. By god. She never won every single match she played?? As for your Australian Open comment. Let me just be very clear about one thing in regards to that.. The Australian Open at the time Court won all of her 11 was open to all and sundry that wanted to play it. The fact that Americans and Europeans chose not to is of no fault of Courts. In fact who says that the fields would have been any better if the internationals had of been there or not? Maybe the weak Australian players scared them off from coming? The fact is that you can't win something if you don't show up. So I say fool those players for not making the effort. And good on Margaret for supporting her sport, and supporting her home Grand Slam... For that effort, the history books will forever show that she did infact turn up to play. And that she did in fact win.. 11 of those suckers!! To say that she played weak fields. Then by winning all slams on multiple occasions suggests that it wouldn't have mattered who she played.. She could win anywhere, against anyone. Period... Now we can argue about the GOAT all day. But lets be sure that we understand that Steffi Graf is not it... Last edited by Darth_Timmaayyy!! : 10-02-2009 at 07:37 PM. |
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10-02-2009, 07:41 PM
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#42 |
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,594
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I did not just pick a loss here or a less there. If I did that I would have mentioned only 1970, the only year she won the Calender Slam (and even that year she took a straight sets loss to 15 year old Chris Evert in their first ever meeting). She was indeed the dominant player for atleast 5 years of her career, just as Graf and Navratilova and other greats were. I pointed out many specific years where another competitor won more slams than she did (even counting her annual coronations at the often sparsely attended Australian Open), was beaten her handily in major semis or finals by that same main competitor that year, and in some cases when she only even played half or none of the year. She was most certainly not the best player in the World for even the entire 12 year span from 1961 to 1973, atleast half of that she was not for the reasons listed, let alone the fictional 15 years you referred to. Even AndrewD through all his Court worshipping is conceding Court did not even play 15 full years on tour, yet you were saying she was the dominant player for 15 years, LOL!
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10-02-2009, 07:45 PM
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#43 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,594
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10-02-2009, 07:52 PM
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#44 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 715
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How do you define "expert"? Does an "expert" have an "expert" opinion, as to compared to say someone like me. Or you? What makes an "expert"? Sorry mate. I look at the stats and the results.. They don't lie. And you cant change them and History to suit your argument. Just because you like someone better... lol... |
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10-03-2009, 03:48 AM
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#45 | |
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Professional
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: England
Posts: 1,333
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Doubles are nice if you like doubles but they are NOT relevant in the greatest of all time debate. As I said, if you want to debate who is the greatest ever including doubles then Court is obviously above Graf. But the standard GOAT debate is singles only and everyone knows it. As I said, if doubles mattered anywhere near as much as singles then Graf would've played. This is primarily a singles sport and everyone knows it. |
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10-03-2009, 03:56 AM
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#46 | ||||
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Banned
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 715
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10-03-2009, 03:59 AM
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#47 |
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Professional
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: England
Posts: 1,333
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Snore. I'll let you get back to your Court shrine now. She is not the greatest and never will be. Btw I didn't think you spelling it 'Navratilover' was a spelling mistake, I thought you meant NavratiLOVER because you say she loves herself.
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10-03-2009, 04:14 AM
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#48 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,594
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10-03-2009, 04:19 AM
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#49 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 715
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10-03-2009, 04:23 AM
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#50 |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,715
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I am pretty sure I know who this Darth is. It is the infamous Chris_In_Japan who has been banned about 200 times, making yet another retun.
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10-03-2009, 04:24 AM
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#51 | |
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Professional
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: England
Posts: 1,333
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10-03-2009, 04:30 AM
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#52 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,715
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10-03-2009, 04:34 AM
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#53 | |
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Professional
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: England
Posts: 1,333
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chris_in_japan = VikingSamurai = Darth_Timmaayyy!! That's cool then, we should just all ignore him til he gets banned again.  |
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10-03-2009, 05:04 AM
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#54 | |
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Legend
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bierlandt
Posts: 9,961
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Court is likened to Emerson: lots of slams, but not a GOAT contender.
__________________
The smart man thinks he knows a lot; the wise man is aware that he knows little. Last edited by hoodjem : 10-03-2009 at 05:07 AM. |
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10-03-2009, 07:36 AM
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#55 | |
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Hall Of Fame
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,512
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For all the talk about slams, Court has the most -- only Graf is really close, and Court has 6 more than either Navratilova or Evert -- to put it in perspective, Hingis only won 5 in her entire career. Plus, for all the talk about Navratilova's versatility in slngles, doubles and mixed doubles, Court STILL has more combined slams in all three than Martina does. So to say Court is not a GOAT contender is not paying proper homage to her career. I personally would put Graf at #1 over Court even though she has 2 fewer slams, but I don't think its as lopsided as some may think. Plus, I'm not convinced that Navratilova is clearly ahead of Evert -- Evert made more slam finals and didn't have her prime come during the weakest era in WTA history (1982-1986) like Navratilova did, where she won 12 of her 18 slams.
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"I thank the Lord Jesus Christ, because without Him, I am nothing." -- Michael Chang after beating Stefan Edberg to win the 1989 French Open |
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10-03-2009, 01:34 PM
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#56 |
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Banned
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 715
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lambielspins, oh wow. So I am someon else because I dissagree with someone else? Ok, I thik I get it?
There is a guy called AndrewD that made a case similar to mine. I wonder who he really is.. I mean all this area 51 stuff is just funny... If you want your player to be the greatest. Then in "your" mind they will be.. Lets not let facts get in the way. And most definitely not let history get in the way either.. I mean. You guys just make it up as you see fit.. So I will enjoy watching you all join forces to have me run out of town because you guys live in an effing dream world that simple cant be shattered by the plain old truth... Oh, and doubles really isn't tennis. In fact its not real. lol Way to go.. Last edited by Darth_Timmaayyy!! : 10-03-2009 at 02:07 PM. |
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10-04-2009, 10:16 PM
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#57 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,924
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10-05-2009, 05:28 AM
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#58 | |
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Legend
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bierlandt
Posts: 9,961
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She is likened to Emerson in that Emerson has a very high total slam count, but no one ranks him third just behind Fed or Sampras. I'd also like to suggest that she was lucky (for different reasons) like Emerson in that her competition was not the greatest. Her main quality rivals were BJ King, Maria Bueno, and Evonne Goolagong.
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The smart man thinks he knows a lot; the wise man is aware that he knows little. Last edited by hoodjem : 10-05-2009 at 05:33 AM. |
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10-05-2009, 10:37 AM
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#59 | |
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Hall Of Fame
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: L. Island, NY
Posts: 4,786
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__________________
Chris Evert: "[Monica] then really got cheated out of a lot of Grand Slams. She was really dominating women's tennis, dominating Steffi Graf." |
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10-05-2009, 10:49 AM
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#60 | |
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Professional
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: England
Posts: 1,333
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Anyways although I find her personality disgusting I totally agree that her views shouldn't make a difference to her legacy, but IMO Court purely as a player is not GOAT or better than Martina. The poster I was referring to is just an arrogant Court fanatic who refuses to accept anyone else's opinion. She is definitely a GOAT contender but he talks like she is the only possibility. |
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