Best player men singles 58 and 59.

Q&M son · 10-06-2009, 03:01 PM

I will start this with an old urban post, as it follows:

"On Segdman and Hoad in 1958 and 1959, there are some valid comments and rankings (not by me), which argue in favor of both. If you put 4 major pro events in 1958 with all top players competing: Sedman won Wembley and the Austalian pro, Gonzales the Forest Hills pro round robin, and Rosewall the French pro. (The US pro hadn't a very good field). Sedgman had also a 4-2 head to head in important events over Gonzales. In 1959, there were several lists and experts, who put Hoad on top. Hoad was the 'race-leader' in a 14 pro tournament series over the whole world, and he had beaten Gonzales in the important Forest Hills final. In the eyes of most pros, Gonzales however remained Nr.1, for his head-to-head series over Hoad in 1958. In the mentality of pros then, it was like the old boxing system, when a champion had to be dethroned in a title match.
It shows the need to study all these years carefully,to come to differenciate results and to contextualize these results."

Can someone give me and us more information and thoughts about it?
Thanks in advance.

Lucio.

timnz · 10-06-2009, 03:11 PM

I'd give the nod to Hoad being the best player of 1959. He very comprehensively beat Gonzales at the most important tournament of the year - Tournament of Champions Forest Hills 6-1, 5-7, 6-2, 6-1 (except for the second set Hoad dominated).

Have a read of:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...825754,00.html

Also in the American Round Robin. Hoad def. Gonzales 15 matches to 13.

So in both the head to head stakes and also in the big tournament stakes - Hoad was superior. (Yes Gonzales beat Hoad at the US Pro - but was it as big as Forest Hills that year - I don't think so).

hoodjem · 10-06-2009, 04:07 PM

I have . . .

1957—Gonzales/Rosewall
1958—Gonzales/Sedgman
1959—Gonzales/Hoad
1960—Gonzales/Rosewall

Q&M son · 10-06-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoodjem

I have . . .

1957—Gonzales/Rosewall
1958—Gonzales/Sedgman
1959—Gonzales/Hoad
1960—Gonzales/Rosewall

Do you mean shared as I understand?

Q&M son · 10-06-2009, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timnz

I'd give the nod to Hoad being the best player of 1959. He very comprehensively beat Gonzales at the most important tournament of the year - Tournament of Champions Forest Hills 6-1, 5-7, 6-2, 6-1 (except for the second set Hoad dominated).

Have a read of:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...825754,00.html

Also in the American Round Robin. Hoad def. Gonzales 15 matches to 13.

So in both the head to head stakes and also in the big tournament stakes - Hoad was superior. (Yes Gonzales beat Hoad at the US Pro - but was it as big as Forest Hills that year - I don't think so).

Thank you, I just read McCauley too but there's no much to add here

Q&M son · 10-06-2009, 05:23 PM

Another question: no tennis in november and december those two years? I found nothing on McCauley appendix of results...

Q&M son · 10-07-2009, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Q&M son

Another question: no tennis in november and december those two years? I found nothing on McCauley appendix of results...

Maybe some tour matches???

timnz · 10-07-2009, 04:26 PM

Take a look at:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...lew-hoad&hl=en

Q&M son · 10-08-2009, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timnz

Take a look at:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...lew-hoad&hl=en

Thanks timnz.

Q&M son · 10-08-2009, 04:40 AM

I found some Australian tour matches in Google News search, between Olmedo Hoad and Gonzalez, ando some tournaments too (Sidney and Brisbane)

urban · 10-08-2009, 05:08 AM

For Australian tours, McCauley is not always complete. Andrew Tas and Jeffrey Neave have provided some more results of those tours in different threads.

Q&M son · 10-08-2009, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urban

For Australian tours, McCauley is not always complete. Andrew Tas and Jeffrey Neave have provided some more results of those tours in different threads.

Yes, I will look forward but I thin there's not much about the years I mentioned.

Q&M son · 10-08-2009, 06:57 AM

In this website (AndrewTas provided this info) I found some:

http://tennishistory.com.au/media/meneventbyyear.swf

urban · 10-08-2009, 07:27 AM

Thats phantastic statistical material by Andrew Tas. I think, almost all mens tournaments, which were ever played in Australia. By far more detailled and complete than any other list, such as the list given by Michel Sutter.

Q&M son · 10-08-2009, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urban

Thats phantastic statistical material by Andrew Tas. I think, almost all mens tournaments, which were ever played in Australia. By far more detailled and complete than any other list, such as the list given by Michel Sutter.

Great work from Andrew.

Q&M son · 10-08-2009, 01:30 PM

Sh*t, I should READ before ASK... page 98 of McCauley, there is what I'm was looking from 59: three events, two won by Hoad (RR)and one by Rosewall on December that year.

10-06-2009, 03:01 PM	#1
Q&M son Professional Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Trenque Lauquen, BA, Argentina. Posts: 908	Best player men singles 58 and 59. I will start this with an old urban post, as it follows: "On Segdman and Hoad in 1958 and 1959, there are some valid comments and rankings (not by me), which argue in favor of both. If you put 4 major pro events in 1958 with all top players competing: Sedman won Wembley and the Austalian pro, Gonzales the Forest Hills pro round robin, and Rosewall the French pro. (The US pro hadn't a very good field). Sedgman had also a 4-2 head to head in important events over Gonzales. In 1959, there were several lists and experts, who put Hoad on top. Hoad was the 'race-leader' in a 14 pro tournament series over the whole world, and he had beaten Gonzales in the important Forest Hills final. In the eyes of most pros, Gonzales however remained Nr.1, for his head-to-head series over Hoad in 1958. In the mentality of pros then, it was like the old boxing system, when a champion had to be dethroned in a title match. It shows the need to study all these years carefully,to come to differenciate results and to contextualize these results." Can someone give me and us more information and thoughts about it? Thanks in advance. Lucio.

10-06-2009, 03:11 PM	#2
timnz Hall Of Fame Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 2,726	Hoad 1959 I'd give the nod to Hoad being the best player of 1959. He very comprehensively beat Gonzales at the most important tournament of the year - Tournament of Champions Forest Hills 6-1, 5-7, 6-2, 6-1 (except for the second set Hoad dominated). Have a read of: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...825754,00.html Also in the American Round Robin. Hoad def. Gonzales 15 matches to 13. So in both the head to head stakes and also in the big tournament stakes - Hoad was superior. (Yes Gonzales beat Hoad at the US Pro - but was it as big as Forest Hills that year - I don't think so). Last edited by timnz : 10-06-2009 at 03:15 PM.

10-06-2009, 04:07 PM	#3
hoodjem G.O.A.T. Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bierlandt Posts: 10,019	I have . . . 1957—Gonzales/Rosewall 1958—Gonzales/Sedgman 1959—Gonzales/Hoad 1960—Gonzales/Rosewall __________________ The smart man thinks he knows a lot; the wise man is aware that he knows little. Last edited by hoodjem : 10-06-2009 at 04:18 PM.

10-06-2009, 05:23 PM	#6
Q&M son Professional Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Trenque Lauquen, BA, Argentina. Posts: 908	Another question: no tennis in november and december those two years? I found nothing on McCauley appendix of results... Last edited by Q&M son : 10-07-2009 at 12:30 PM.

10-07-2009, 04:26 PM	#8
timnz Hall Of Fame Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 2,726	During the year 1959 Hoad got top seeding Take a look at: http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...lew-hoad&hl=en