Connors and Collins in 1978

[CyBorg]

I'm curious if anyone has any theories on what happened post-match at the 1978 Wimbledon tournament.

Connors had just lost the match and the players walked towards Bud Connors to be interviewed. Connors was to be interviewed first and as he came up to Connors Bud asked "Jimmy, can I have a few words?". As he said that, Collins put his hand on Jimmy's shoulder.

Jimmy gave Bud a cold look and slowly removed Collins's hand from his shoulder with a gesture that seemed to say "what the heck are you doing?" I couldn't believe it.

Jimbo was visibly unhappy with the loss (a bad one), but this was quite odd. It's also interesting that this involved Bud who also had a strange incident with Federer in... 2008, was it?

Probably just Jimmy being Jimmy, but thought I'd mention it anyway.

[BTURNER]

cyborg, what are you getting at? are you implying Bud was making a pass?

[CyBorg]

No, Bud was just being nice. Not getting at anything - it was just really awkward and somewhat amusing. I wasn't sure whether it was Jimmy being dryly humorous or if he just didn't like Bud.

[jimbo333]

Jimmy gave the impression of liking very few people in the tennis world

[hoodjem]

Connors could be rude and a bit of a jerk fairly often, or a word that rhymes with stick. What did they often call him: "brash."

I think as a kid he was kinda thin and not all that tall and was teased for playing that "girly" sport of tennis, instead of football.

So he often compensated by acting the tough guy.

[hoodjem]

Originally Posted by CyBorg

Jimbo was visibly unhappy with the loss (a bad one), but this was quite odd. It's also interesting that this involved Bud who also had a strange incident with Federer in... 2008, was it?

Probably just Jimmy being Jimmy, but thought I'd mention it anyway.

Straight-set loss to Borg.

Of course in comparison to angelic, teen-idol Borg, Jimmy just had to play the "bad cop" role.

[borg number one]

Connors could definitely play the "tough guy" role on and off the tennis court. He really couldn't care less if he rubbed the crowd/officials, or his opponent the wrong way at times. He was truly a "fighter" on the tennis court. He absolutely hated to lose and would just about do anything or say anything in an effort to "psych out" his opponents at times. Against guys like Borg, it didn't work very well, especially after about 1976.

I remember being a ball boy at a WCT tournament in Birmingham, Alabama and being with a junior tennis player friend and his father courtside. Well, my friend idolized Connors at the time (we were both about 10-11) and his father was asking for "an autograph for his son" and we were by ourselves near the court as he walked off the court after a match. Well, Connors just kept walking after looking up at us, and never even acknowledged our presence. He was "old school tough", not just on the surface for show either. He was definitely a different person when he was on the Court at a tennis tournament. Having said that, he did so much for the Game just by playing his heart out each and every time he competed. You had to give it EVERYTHING you had all the time to win a match against him. He was actually very funny at times as well as shocking.

Examples:

-He once "mooned the crowd" at the US Open if I'm not mistaken (I don't think it was Nastase (??))
-He ran over to the other side of the court at the US Open during a match on rublico (green clay) once and used his foot to erase a mark on the court while Corrado Barrazuti was arguing a call and the mark.
-At times I thought he and McEnroe were going to get in a fist fight, with Jimmy always playing the "bully" and acting like John McEnroe was his "spoiled kid" or something as opposed to another great player. It was funny, because Connors had been pulling that kind of stuff for years before McEnroe, thought he "exploded" less frequently probably and his "tantrums" lasted a shorter amount a time and were more like "stare downs" instead of "shouting episodes".

Here's a nice little clip of him playing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Myg66OWBuNI

The funny, but tough side of Connors:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V32aAOnVKs (Wimbledon SF vs. Lendl)

Here's the angry side:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYYUtb4GUHE&NR=1

[Carsomyr]

I think the Federer incident was the 2007 FO. Collins has a knack for asking a host of uncomfortable questions, perhaps even before he became a senile fool. For instance, just after Federer (presumably politely) refused a post-match interview for the match in question, Bud opened with this gem with Rafa: "Roger refused the interview for the first time ever, that just goes to show how bad he felt. You made him feel very bad, congratulations, Rafa!"

Ever since then, Collins has continued to take potshots at Federer, saying at the Australian Open that Roger wouldn't win a major this year, and after Fed either tied or surpassed Sampras, he said he still felt Sampras was superior.

[Carsomyr]

Oh, not to mention he also predicted Fed to lose at the 2007 Wimbledon and US Open.

[Datacipher]

Originally Posted by Carsomyr

I think the Federer incident was the 2007 FO. Collins has a knack for asking a host of uncomfortable questions, perhaps even before he became a senile fool. For instance, just after Federer (presumably politely) refused a post-match interview for the match in question, Bud opened with this gem with Rafa: "Roger refused the interview for the first time ever, that just goes to show how bad he felt. You made him feel very bad, congratulations, Rafa!"

Ever since then, Collins has continued to take potshots at Federer, saying at the Australian Open that Roger wouldn't win a major this year, and after Fed either tied or surpassed Sampras, he said he still felt Sampras was superior.

Collins has always been known for asking difficult questions and giving candid opinions. There was a time, when Agassi hated his guts. This beats the celebrity soft-ball style interviews done by everyone else by a quantum leap. Long live people like Collins and Larry Merchant. Sorry if he may tread on the toes of your hero occasionally.

PS. Collins knows more about pro tennis than probably any man ever has. He also played 100x better tennis than you. You really don't make yourself look good when you mouth off like this.

[hoodjem]

Here's Connors walking off the court over a "bad" (in his opinion) line call.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rUPpCnkFe0&NR=1

[Carsomyr]

Originally Posted by Datacipher

Collins has always been known for asking difficult questions and giving candid opinions. There was a time, when Agassi hated his guts. This beats the celebrity soft-ball style interviews done by everyone else by a quantum leap. Long live people like Collins and Larry Merchant. Sorry if he may tread on the toes of your hero occasionally.

PS. Collins knows more about pro tennis than probably any man ever has. He also played 100x better tennis than you. You really don't make yourself look good when you mouth off like this.

I'm well aware of how prolific a figure Bud Collins is in tennis; thank you. But just after a difficult defeat is not the time for difficult (read: uncomfortable) questions. If big name players such as Connors, Agassi, Federer, and even Nadal have been made to feel uncomfortable by his presence, maybe he should have altered his approach. And does predicting a guy who was in a Slam semi and three Slam finals, winning one, the previous year to not win ANY the following year seem candid to you? No, it sounds exactly the opposite of candid; he was just bitter about Roger snubbing him at the French two years ago. It wasn't Federer's best moment to avoid facing the consequences of the loss, but Collins should have gotten over it by now. He was a good analyst at one point in time, but if he hates the top player for personal or xenophobic reasons, think maybe it's time for him to call it quits?

And , I'm not exactly sure what my playing ability compared to Collins' has to do with anything, but on that train of logic, I guess Connors', Agassi's, and Federer's opinions trump Collins' since they vastly outrank him in terms of playing ability.

[Rabbit]

The deal in 1978 was that Connors just didn't want to be touched after the final. I remember Collins, as he did every year, interviewed the loser first. He put a hand on Connors' shoulder and Connors pulled away and said "don't touch me". Collins responed with "I just wanted to ask you a couple of questions" to which Connors responded "you can ask, just keep your hands off me". It was a pretty tense interview and Connors was visibly agitated; it didn't last too long. I do remember that Connors was bitterly disappointed over losing that match and I think that was the year he said he'd "follow Borg to the ends of the earth".

The previous year, Connors lost in 5 sets and when asked about the match he said "we were at each others nuts for 5 sets". This was about the time Connors was being written off as not being able to beat Borg. He did beat Borg at the US Open in '78 and this pretty much put him back on the map until he was written off again in '79.

[hoodjem]

Originally Posted by hoodjem

Straight-set loss to Borg.

Of course in comparison to angelic, teen-idol Borg, Jimmy just had to play the "bad cop" role.

Not to mention that Connors hated to lose.

So a straight loss to Borg (his rival at the time) would 've put him in a really bad mood, to say the least.

[hoodjem]

Originally Posted by Carsomyr

It wasn't Federer's best moment to avoid facing the consequences of the loss, but Collins should have gotten over it by now. He was a good analyst at one point in time, but if he hates the top player for personal or xenophobic reasons, think maybe it's time for him to call it quits?

"xenophobic"? Bud Collins?

xenophobia: fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign

Bud Collins (an American) hates and fears all non-Americans? Really?

[Carsomyr]

Originally Posted by hoodjem

"xenophobic"? Bud Collins?

xenophobia: fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign

Bud Collins (an American) hates and fears all non-Americans? Really?

Oh, is THAT what xenophobia means?

Unless it's by virtue of his personal animosity toward Federer because of the snub, I don't see why else he refuses to credit him over Sampras (an American). Racist comments aren't always made by racist people. Likewise, because Collins is xenophobic in one particular aspect (i.e. refusing to acknowledge some Swiss guy being a greater champion than a homegrown hero) does not make him an all-encompassing xenophobic person.

[Rabbit]

Originally Posted by Carsomyr

Oh, is THAT what xenophobia means?

Unless it's by virtue of his personal animosity toward Federer because of the snub, I don't see why else he refuses to credit him over Sampras (an American).

Maybe because he thinks Sampras is better and competed in a time when there was more competition? Not saying I agree, but that is a valid view IMO.

Originally Posted by Carsomyr

Racist comments aren't always made by racist people.

Certainly you're not implying that Collins is racist toward the Swiss?

Originally Posted by Carsomyr

Likewise, because Collins is xenophobic in one particular aspect does not make him an all-encompassing xenophobic person.

I think the very notion is laughable. There was no greater admirer of the Australians or Bjorn Borg or Boris Becker, or Stephan Edberg than Bud Collins.

Plus, Collins ALWAYS made a point of saying something to the winner in their native tongue as a nod toward the global nature of the sport.

[Carsomyr]

Originally Posted by Rabbit

Maybe because he thinks Sampras is better and competed in a time when there was more competition? Not saying I agree, but that is a valid view IMO.

That is obviously what he believes, although most major analysts at the time of Federer's 2009 Wimbledon victory had either said Federer was the outright GOAT, or at least in the discussion with Laver, Borg, etc. Collins made a point to say he isn't even better than Sampras, who I personally feel doesn't belong in the discussion with Laver, Borg, Rosewall, and now Federer.

Certainly you're not implying that Collins is racist toward the Swiss?

Of course not. I'm just saying perhaps he feels threatened by Federer's smashing of an American's records. This is only a suggestion. I'm not subscribing to the belief that Collins dislikes Federer because he's better than one of his favorite Americans, just throwing it out there as a possibility. He hates him for some reason.

I think the very notion is laughable. There was no greater admirer of the Australians or Bjorn Borg or Boris Becker, or Stephan Edberg than Bud Collins.

Sure, he's an admirer of them, but, beyond Borg and Laver, no foreigner really belonged in the discussion of the top tier in his book. Three of his five greatest all-time players were Americans.

[Rabbit]

Originally Posted by Carsomyr

That is obviously what he believes, although most major analysts at the time of Federer's 2009 Wimbledon victory had either said Federer was the outright GOAT, or at least in the discussion with Laver, Borg, etc. Collins made a point to say he isn't even better than Sampras, who I personally feel doesn't belong in the discussion with Laver, Borg, Rosewall, and now Federer.

Of course not. I'm just saying he feels threatened by Federer's smashing of an American's records.



Sure, he's an admirer of them, but, beyond Borg and Laver, no foreigner really belonged in the discussion of the top tier in his book. Three of his five greatest all-time players were Americans.

Sorry, but this isn't accurate. Here is an excerpt from an interview conducted by Tennis magazine in January of 2009 with Bud Collins:

Originally Posted by Tennis Magazine Interview

Is there a specific thing that Roger Federer must accomplish to be considered the greatest of all time, in your mind? Break Sampras’ record? Win the French?
Well, Pete Sampras never won in Paris, and he’s one of the greatest. And I think Roger now is one of the greatest, and he’s never won in Paris.
To me the greatest of all time is still Rod Laver. It was a different era, a different game, but I think if Laver showed up these days he would be fine. We’ll see how long Nadal lasts. He might just inundate everybody, the way he’s playing now. But I don’t know how long his knees will hold up. His style is pretty injurious. But to me it’s too soon to call somebody the greatest player of all time.
Life is funny and sports are funny and Federer might not win another major. Chances are that he will somewhere, but he’s no sure thing to beat Nadal here. I assume it will be Nadal [in the final].

Here, Collins explicitly indicates that "I think Roger is one of the greatest". He goes on to say that Federer is one of the players he really enjoys watching and doesn't do the bang-bang tennis. On the cover of Collins' latest book, The History of Tennis, is none other than Roger Federer. And, his website is devoted to the international coverage of tennis from what I could see.

and this recently from Bud Collins' website

Originally Posted by Bud Collins

I believe Roger can win a Grand Slam. And as far as the Greatest of all Time debate, you can only be the greatest of your era. Roger certainly is the greatest of his era

Here, he clearly says what I think everyone should and will agree with. You can be the greatest of your era, but the sport has changed too much to compare eras.

[Carsomyr]

Originally Posted by Rabbit

Sorry, but this isn't accurate. Here is an excerpt from an interview conducted by Tennis magazine in January of 2009 with Bud Collins:

And here's a more recent opinion submitted to ESPN after Federer won his fifteenth Slam, and thus moved Roger ahead of Sampras:

Originally Posted by Bud Collins

Winning 15 majors is a tremendous landmark, but I don't necessarily think Roger is a better player than Pete. I'm one of those people who thinks Pete played better competition in his day. [Boris] Becker, [Andre] Agassi, [Jim] Courier, [Ivan] Lendl -- those were some great players.

On the cover of Collins' latest book, The History of Tennis, is none other than Roger Federer. And, his website is devoted to the international coverage of tennis from what I could see.

What does that prove? Since Federer is the most popular modern player, it would prove pretty foolish to not have him in some way, shape, or form on the cover if he wanted to sell copies.