Greatest Returners in the Game?

hoodjem · 10-17-2009, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pc1

I suppose they are up there. There are a lot of other possibilities. Borg for example I think is very underrated as a returner. He didn't hit as many outright winners perhaps as Connors but I think he returned more serves than Connors or Agassi and he used his great speed and defensive ability to take it from there.

Borg won over 66% of his games in 1978 which I believe is an Open Era record and he won 64 to 66% of his games for a span of years. You figure that Borg would have broken serve close to 40% of the time even if he held serve about 90% of the time. If Borg broke serve 40% of the time, that would be an ATP record but they didn't keep records that far back.

Laver was also known for his great return.

Tilden and Budge were famous for their returns.

Rosewall was thought to have the best return in tennis for most of his career. Many think Rosewall could very well be the greater service returner ever.

Bobby Riggs and Frank Kovacs were also known for their great returns.

1. Connors
2. Borg
3. Agassi
4. Laver
5. Tilden
6. Budge
7. Rosewall
8. Riggs
9. Kovacs

BTURNER · 10-17-2009, 07:04 AM

I always put Connors at the top of this category. He did what Borg did, but did it a few years earlier, catching the serves of Laver, Ashe and Smith and Newcomb while they were a bit fresher and Borg was still sitting in Europe on clay and returned the bombs of Becker,the second serves of Edberg and Cash. He just saw a lot more variety in his longer career. His return did slip a bit real late in his career,

pc1 · 10-17-2009, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoodjem

1. Connors
2. Borg
3. Agassi
4. Laver
5. Tilden
6. Budge
7. Rosewall
8. Riggs
9. Kovacs

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTURNER

I always put Connors at the top of this category. He did what Borg did, but did it a few years earlier, catching the serves of Laver, Ashe and Smith and Newcomb while they were a bit fresher and Borg was still sitting in Europe on clay and returned the bombs of Becker,the second serves of Edberg and Cash. He just saw a lot more variety in his longer career. His return did slip a bit real late in his career,

Nice lists by both. I like all the names. I'd probably put Rosewall higher and arguably even number one but it's a matter of opinion. All of the names can be argued to be number one.

I suppose if I had to pick a top three I would pick in alphabetical order Borg, Connors and Rosewall.

Lot of great groundstrokers on these lists. I would love to see the rallies between any two of these players.

hoodjem · 10-17-2009, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pc1

Lot of great groundstrokers on these lists. I would love to see the rallies between any two of these players.

Did you ever see the 1974 Wimbledon or US Open finals? Connors positively molested Kenny in both. Lots of good reasons for the one-sidedness, including the fact the muscles was close to 40 years old, and the "Belleville basher" was a prime 21/22. Connors became world no. 1 on 29 July 1974. (Connors won 3 slams in '74: probably his best year.)

It hurts to watch or recall those.

In their respective primes, it would be a great match: touch and grace versus power and ferocity.

pc1 · 10-17-2009, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoodjem

Did you ever see the 1974 Wimbledon or US Open finals? Connors positively molested Kenny in both. Lots of good reasons for the one-sidedness, including the fact the muscles was close to 40 years old, and the "Belleville basher" was a prime 21/22. Connors became world no. 1 on 29 July 1974. (Connors won 3 slams in '74: probably his best year.)

It hurts to watch or recall those.

In their respective primes, it would be a great match: touch and grace versus power and ferocity.

Yes that was painful to watch. I mean in their primes. Connors was too much for Rosewall in those days. Ken would be super competitive against anyone else even at around age 40 but against Connors he was a goner.

urban · 10-17-2009, 10:07 AM

And still, Rosewall managed to win two service breaks in those 3 sets against Connors at Wim, a testament to his own return game. But his serve was no weapon against the ferocious returning of Connors. I have a book edited by Tennis Magazine of the mid 70s, where John Alexander rates i.a. the best returners. He has Rosewall and Laver at the top, Rosewall for the consistency, Laver for the variety of his returns. Then he rates Jan Kodes and young Connors.

hoodjem · 10-17-2009, 11:26 AM

Neither Connors nor Rosewall was a big server.

Keifers · 10-17-2009, 01:32 PM

In the last 20 years.. I'd say Fed has to be considered as one of the best. He reads the servers' tendencies really well, has great reflexes, and gets to the ball with such apparent ease (excellent stretch).

He's dismantled the big servers' primary weapon time and again.

urban · 10-17-2009, 11:43 PM

Yes, Federer had/has an excellent return, based on good footwork, concentration and consistency (reminded me on Rosewall). It was not overwhelming, but very solid, setting up exchanges, where Federer could bring in his forehand. The sheer percentage of serves coming back did hamper servers like Roddick. However, over the last few years, his return has lost a bit of bite. Its quite tame nowadays, floating over the net, and not as consistent as it was. You can see the difference in the Wim final this year. In the earlier finals Federer had no difficulties with Roddick's serve at all.

wyutani · 10-17-2009, 11:56 PM

jimmy connors, then agassi.

jrepac · 10-18-2009, 10:04 AM

Fed's return is quite good, but I think it is only superior against some (not all players) like Roddick for instance. Seemed that Fed could always read his serve...I'm less impressed w/Roger's return when he is playing Nadal. Could be the lefty factor. In the last year, Fed's return maybe not quite the same as year's past, not bad either.

But, in terms of all time returns, got to put Andre & Connors & Borg, up there, no?

Andre for the sheer force of his return--absolutely scorching at times
Connors for explosively returning serves no human had a right to reach
Borg for sheer consistency of performance

I haven't seen enough of the pre-open generation to assess, tho' everyone here seems to put Rosewall right up there as well.

abmk · 10-18-2009, 06:31 PM

from what I've seen in the 90s and 2000s,the good/very good/elite returners:

90s: agassi, kafelnikov,courier,korda,chang, maybe goran too ( he took some pretty good big cuts )

2000s: federer, hewitt,safin,nalbandian,murray,davydenko,ferrer,dj okovic

jaggy · 10-19-2009, 07:03 PM

I think Safin on his day is the best Ive seen and Ive watched since mid 70s.

10-17-2009, 11:26 AM	#7
hoodjem G.O.A.T. Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bierlandt Posts: 10,019	Neither Connors nor Rosewall was a big server. __________________ The smart man thinks he knows a lot; the wise man is aware that he knows little.

10-17-2009, 11:56 PM	#10
wyutani Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: hong kong Posts: 4,747	jimmy connors, then agassi. __________________ Western Grip, Counter-puncher Lefty... Dunlop Maxply Mcenroe (Serve), Dunlop Aerogel 4D 300 Tour (Return)...

10-18-2009, 10:04 AM	#11
jrepac Professional Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,117	Returners Fed's return is quite good, but I think it is only superior against some (not all players) like Roddick for instance. Seemed that Fed could always read his serve...I'm less impressed w/Roger's return when he is playing Nadal. Could be the lefty factor. In the last year, Fed's return maybe not quite the same as year's past, not bad either. But, in terms of all time returns, got to put Andre & Connors & Borg, up there, no? Andre for the sheer force of his return--absolutely scorching at times Connors for explosively returning serves no human had a right to reach Borg for sheer consistency of performance I haven't seen enough of the pre-open generation to assess, tho' everyone here seems to put Rosewall right up there as well.

10-18-2009, 06:31 PM	#12
abmk G.O.A.T. Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: India Posts: 11,792	from what I've seen in the 90s and 2000s,the good/very good/elite returners: 90s: agassi, kafelnikov,courier,korda,chang, maybe goran too ( he took some pretty good big cuts ) 2000s: federer, hewitt,safin,nalbandian,murray,davydenko,ferrer,dj okovic Last edited by abmk : 10-18-2009 at 08:51 PM.

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