Serve and Volley players please help

[NamRanger]

Originally Posted by 2ndServe

just because edberg and rafter came in on kickers does not mean the rest of us should. If you mix it up well yeah sure, but if you're hitting kickers all the time, you better have the best kicker and best volleys like edberg to do this. Any 5.0+ if he sees kickers all the time is going to take it on the rise before it kicks high and make you look silly.

Sure if you're playing jokers who are clueless enough to return kickers at the back fence waiting for it to come down and letting the kick play them. Hit it 100%

A 5.0+ is not going to consistently return a 5.0+ kick serve the majority of the time (if it's a good one).

[2ndServe]

Originally Posted by NamRanger

A 5.0+ is not going to consistently return a 5.0+ kick serve the majority of the time (if it's a good one).

Well if you're a 5.0 and you want to hit mostly kick serves and s&v I'm in the socal area if you want to test this theory. I could be wrong but I'd like to find out.

[Kenny022593]

Didn't Navarro hit all Kick/Spin serves against Dent?

[2ndServe]

could be but Dent has arguably the worst return I've seen for a pro. I've never seen a pro hit so many slice forehand returns and slice backhands all the time. Seriously slice forehands? He was a beast in the juniors in socal and I hope his return to the pros is a good one. His groundies at the US open were very impressive I was in awe compared to what they used to be.

I love watching him play but I think he has a bit too much weight to play sv. Such a beautiful game minus the return of serve. Yeah you can also kick it to feliciano lopez's backhand, karlovic's backhand and blake's backhand all day.

[LeeD]

Yeah, let's diss on Dent. And while we're at it, diss on TommyHaas too, who also slices the majority of backhands returns, but also a fair percentage of forehand returns.
Right, only topspin returns counts for anything.
And for S/V serves, ANY serve which you can WIN THE MAJORITY of points is good enough for S/V.
And any serve with you think you can win the particular point, the majority of times, is the choice of serve.
PLAY some tennis, guys, and you'll know that not every serve works equally well against everyone player.
Really, try playing some tennis.








v

[EikelBeiter]

Originally Posted by ubermeyer

Me: "don't come in on a kick serve ever unless you have some kind of ridiculously amazingly fast kick serve."

Read.

Plus, the courts today are much slower so discussing Pat Rafter is irrelevant. And pros can do things most players can't.

It is actually a good idea to come in on a kick serve, because it gives you more time to reach the net, since a kick serve is slower. And when you are closer to the net you have an easier volley.

Plus a decent kick serve on the backhand side of the opponent is often more difficult to return than a hard flat service.

[2ndServe]

the more you slice the return the more defensive and more running you'll be doing. The better movers have a better chance because a slice return is simply to get them into the point. Haas and blake can effetively do this but they are 2 of the fastest and best court covers, but I disagree, hass crushes some forehand returns. Notice sv slice returners who can't move well, karlovic, lopez, dent have almost no chance of breaking people. These guys almost always slice the backhand return and are among the worst break percentages relative to their peers in the ranking. If these guys go down a break have you ever seen them win a set or even break back.

[LeeD]

The slow moving big hitters will ALWAYS have trouble breaking serve.
The super fast fit guys who can hit with hard top, but CHOOSE to chip/slice returns can break serve, because they can move.
When Haas played Safin, he chose to chip slice his forehand returns easily 60% of the time, and sliced his backhand returns closer to 75% of the time.
Of course, he could back it up with topspin passing shots off both wings...and the speed to get there and set.

[Kenny022593]

LeeD i agree with you on the statement that you can S/V off of any serve, but what is the best serve? Would it be the kicker as many people have said it gives you more time to get yourself closer to the net to hit a good first volley. Or the flat which can make your opponent go off balance because of the pace?

[2ndServe]

lol it's all, like a pitcher you have to keep people off balance. You hit one type and I guarantee any decent player will destroy you. But it changes depending on your best serve and what your opponent doesn't like, there is no one way, each day and opponent is different.

[LeeD]

As said, you choose your serve with regards of how well you hit it, but also how well (either strong but can miss or very consistent) the returner can hit his returns. If the returner can hit strong and consistent off both sides, and able to return that way on your into the body serves, can cover the whole service court, then count your blessings. You don't have to think anymore, you'll just lose to a superior player!
Fast firsts need to illicit a slower moving return, so you can get into the court, so you can get into position, so you don't get passed.
Slower serves need to illicit an awkward return from the reciever, so you can do the same things and get into position to volley.
Cheap easy points you cannot count on, as it's luck of the draw there.
And you gotta give your opponent SOME credit, if they hit one winner out of 5 of your serves.

[jazzyfunkybluesy]

My trick is to vary the serve in which you charge the net on. Flat to the body, kick to the backhand, sweeping slice off the court to the forehand.

[SlapChop]

I would think that a hard flat serve would be the worst for S&V because the speed it is returned. I think a kick serve or a medium speed well placed flat serve would be best. Placement has alot to do with it because you need to have somewhat of a prediction of which way your opponent will go with the shot.

[junbumkim]

Originally Posted by Kenny022593

LeeD i agree with you on the statement that you can S/V off of any serve, but what is the best serve? Would it be the kicker as many people have said it gives you more time to get yourself closer to the net to hit a good first volley. Or the flat which can make your opponent go off balance because of the pace?

Kick serve works great because it does give you extra time to close in and it is difficult for a returner to get the return down low. But, your kicker has to be good to pull this off.
If well-executed, slice into the body on deuce side is a great serve as well. But you really need to make the ball curve into the body.

As you move up the level, you need more and more pace and the kick to get a weak reply because people at high level will crush mediocre kick serves -especially if they get into a good rhythm.

The goal with your serve when you serve-volley is alway to keep your returner under pressure. To do this, you need consistency, variety, pace, and spin. And, the opponent's capability will have a lot of influence on how you use your serve.

I kinda agree flat serve isn't the most optimal serve for serve-volley. But if you serve is big and your opponent is simply blocking and floating your flat serve back, then there is no reason not to use it. You will be getting a lot of high volleys. If your flat serve is about average, then I suggest you use it as a change up. When your opponent is used to seeing slice and kickers, even mediocre flat serves can feel like a bomb.

In addition, one of the best ways to get your opponent off balance with your serve is to vary the placement while exploiting their weakness and utilizing your strength. You really need to focus on what kind of serves you are using and how your opponent is responding.

However, you CANNOT NEGLECT PACE. You can mix it up all you want with all the spin in the world, but without pace, good players will eat up your serve.

[Slazenger07]

Originally Posted by Ken Honecker

Ah tennis the way it was meant to be played, at least by the young. Hit the crap out of the serve (flat of course, spins are for wimps) charge the net daring your opponant to return it and allow you to murder it. Volley him into submission, repeat. In a perfect world you will play most of the game within 5 feet of the net and display God like talents that make woman swoon at your feet. Always have a Sharpie handy to sign body parts.

lol according to Honecker, once you get down the S&V game you'll be signing titties in no time.

[LeeD]

Once you get down the S/V game, you'll find your competition improves and you have to work on your groundies again, and then your S/V.
Learning and getting better never stops, until you decide it's time to take a break. If you improve ONE aspect of your game, you'll notice the rest of your game lags behind immediately. That is improvement, not a steady curve, but fits of ups followed by slacks of poor play. Fortunately, if the overall game is improving, the ups are higher than the slacks are low.
And flat serves hardly ever come back fast, unless you tell the returner WHERE your're serving it. So move it around.
A real fast first flat serve has the returner standing 4' behind the baseline. Lots of depth and time for you to move in. A weak first flat can be fully groundstroked back at you, so should be saved for times when your're going for the lines.

[SlapChop]

I have a hard flat serve but when returned with a block it comes back DTL like missile. I have had that happen 2 or 3 times, by different players. I did also ace both of these players at least 3 times each. in the same set, with the same serve.

[LeeD]

Since you know where the "missle" is going, it should not be a problem. Just head that way after your serve.
If you match his winners with your aces, and it's even, maybe you should start counting his weak returns or missed returns.
Advantage who?

[LuckyR]

Originally Posted by Kenny022593

LeeD i agree with you on the statement that you can S/V off of any serve, but what is the best serve? Would it be the kicker as many people have said it gives you more time to get yourself closer to the net to hit a good first volley. Or the flat which can make your opponent go off balance because of the pace?

There is no one answer to this question (which might be obvious given the answers in this thread). It all depends on what the returner is having trouble with. Lots of classic players have trouble with high kickers but lots of modern players eat high spinny balls for lunch. Myself, I rush kickers and dink them at the toes of S&Vers (taking away the extra time for them approaching).

If you have a flat serve that noone can return, good for you and there is your answer. For those not named Sampras, you will devastate some with your flat serve and you will get your clock cleaned by others with the same serve.

So in conclusion: it depends.

[BridgetJones]

Originally Posted by Slazenger07

lol according to Honecker, once you get down the S&V game you'll be signing titties in no time.

Does anyone here remember a player whose last name was Chippendale?