The Xtreme Slice Volley??

[Cindysphinx]

I have a friend who is trying to improve her volleys. She took a lesson on this recently, so today she was showing me this new way she volleys.

She started her takeback very high and used a lot of brushing action/high-to-low as she struck the ball, both on FH and BH. The result was a ball with a lot of slice ion it. These balls tended to be fairly short, with underspin/slice. She said she had been told to keep her right arm very straight on her BH volley (no bend in elbow). She usually hit these volleys open stance and did not step toward the net.

I wasn't sure what to make of this. These volleys weren't drives; they were more like drop volleys. The technique was very different from what I was taught to do, with forward motion/stepping in/using the legs being very important. The result was very different from what I was taught to attempt, in that I always thought that the volley should have pace and depth as well as underspin.

Here's my question: Is there any disadvantage to volleying in this new way? Is this something I should try to learn?

[USERNAME]

U dont want to volley like that ever. On almost all volleys u want to keep the racquet face pretty still and drive through the ball and always use the cross step in towards the net. The way your friend is volleying will be very inconsistent against any low ball or ball at (or even a little above) net height because of the choppy swing and it will also give out a ton of short balls.

[Jonny S&V]

Wow, I would try to avoid your friends coach... Volley's should be hit with a bent arm, should be more forward than down, and the racquet head should only be slightly above the arm.

[Blake0]

Volleys are all about..legs..using them for power. Your hands are their to provide touch or as a solid, firm link to return balls. When hitting volleys, you always want to be moving forward, and transferring your weight into the ball, even on drop volleys. Another key part of volleys is the short backswing and short followthrough.

Brushing down on the ball like your friend is doing is very bad..it might work for her now, but if she faces faster balls or has less time to react she'll pop it up or miss most of the time. Stick to the way you were taught to volley..and try to discourage your friend of this new volley style..

[Jonny S&V]

Originally Posted by Blake0

Volleys are all about..legs..using them for power. Your hands are their to provide touch or as a solid, firm link to return balls. When hitting volleys, you always want to be moving forward, and transferring your weight into the ball, even on drop volleys. Another key part of volleys is the short backswing and short followthrough.

This is one point that I've always wanted to figure out once and for all. Volleys are actually all about your arm and wrist position. I believe that stepping into a volley is what you should do, if you have time. When you see doubles volley exchanges, they don't step into the ball at all usually (unless they're putting away a floater) and yet they (if they are of high level) are putting plenty of pop on the volleys. I just think that the wrong emphasis is put on stepping into the a volley. A disclaimer of "If you have time" should be added on. I apologize, however, I am rambling and should go to bed...

[Blake0]

Originally Posted by Jonny S&V

This is one point that I've always wanted to figure out once and for all. I believe that stepping into a volley is what you should do, if you have time. When you see doubles volley exchanges, they don't step into the ball at all usually (unless they're putting away a floater). I just think that the wrong emphasis is put on stepping into the a volley. A disclaimer of "If you have time" should be added on. I apologize, however, I am rambling and should go to bed...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p24aJacdKw

Andy doesn't have much time to really step forward, but look at how he's moving forward or stepping a little bit forward with his legs whenever possible. Ofcourse sometimes, you'll get caught being unable to move at all and hitting a volley and you wont have time to step forward. But, the ideal way is to be moving forward, especially crossing over with the opposite leg when hitting volleys.

[TheMagicianOfPrecision]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

I have a friend who is trying to improve her volleys. She took a lesson on this recently, so today she was showing me this new way she volleys.

She started her takeback very high and used a lot of brushing action/high-to-low as she struck the ball, both on FH and BH. The result was a ball with a lot of slice ion it. These balls tended to be fairly short, with underspin/slice. She said she had been told to keep her right arm very straight on her BH volley (no bend in elbow). She usually hit these volleys open stance and did not step toward the net.

I wasn't sure what to make of this. These volleys weren't drives; they were more like drop volleys. The technique was very different from what I was taught to do, with forward motion/stepping in/using the legs being very important. The result was very different from what I was taught to attempt, in that I always thought that the volley should have pace and depth as well as underspin.

Here's my question: Is there any disadvantage to volleying in this new way? Is this something I should try to learn?

Your friends coach is obviously not very good.
My take on it is that he maybe tried to learn her the proper way to hit a volley-She couldnt do it and gave up on her after a while. On volleys you have to follow through with both racket and your feet, the way you describe it it sounds as if she cant volley behind the service line, many years ago my coach told me that if you are standing between the service-line and the net your volley should be able to pass the service-line on the other side-if they do your technique is fint, if you dont then you hit the ball the wrong way. Also you have to keep your wrist locked, if you dont the ball will just die once it hit your racket.

[jrod]

^^^ Cindy- This sounds completely contrary to everything I've ever learned about how to volley. If you are trying to stick the volley, the motion is more like clearing a table (move arm parallel to the ground) with the arm bent and wrist locked without much extension, and if you have time stepping into it towards your target. The lower the ball the closer the contact point to your body. To get a good idea of the proper body position at contact simply catch the ball with your hitting hand.

For touch or drop volleys, I've practiced a couple of different drills to help enhance feel including either catching the ball with your frame (no bounce), or deflecting it up and then hitting it back softly. I recently saw this later drill on one of those 60-second drill segments on TTC.

If I understand you correctly, the technique you described above seems like something you'd want to avoid.

[LeeD]

Your friend's coach is horrible and doesn't know how to teach correct volleys. OTOH, if you friend NEVER could hit a ball on the fly, he's starting her out WRONG, but she can now "volley".
She will also volley you into oblivion, as your opponents will always hit to her and get a easy putaway ball. Your team will LOSE every time your partner hits her volley. It's better than nothing, but not much better.
Have your partner watch vids here of Clint, or Tony, or some of those guys volleying. Have your partner try to copy, not inovate.

[Bagumbawalla]

Just to be fair, there is not just one volley-- half-volleys, drop-volleys, lob-volleys, swing-volleys and so on. This woman's volley, however, does not seem to be any of the standard volleys and the form is poor (as explained, above).

Is the form poor because she was taught to hit that way by the coach, or is she just an awkward player who hasn't got it all together (yet)? Did she hit a proper volley before, then switch to this?

It may be the coach, or it may be the individual, hard to say. Whatever the case, do not adopt her style.

[Bungalo Bill]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

I have a friend who is trying to improve her volleys. She took a lesson on this recently, so today she was showing me this new way she volleys.

She started her takeback very high and used a lot of brushing action/high-to-low as she struck the ball, both on FH and BH. The result was a ball with a lot of slice ion it. These balls tended to be fairly short, with underspin/slice. She said she had been told to keep her right arm very straight on her BH volley (no bend in elbow). She usually hit these volleys open stance and did not step toward the net.

I wasn't sure what to make of this. These volleys weren't drives; they were more like drop volleys. The technique was very different from what I was taught to do, with forward motion/stepping in/using the legs being very important. The result was very different from what I was taught to attempt, in that I always thought that the volley should have pace and depth as well as underspin.

Here's my question: Is there any disadvantage to volleying in this new way? Is this something I should try to learn?

This is where coaching gets a bad rap. It could be several things:

1. The coach is teaching a speciality shot and the student didn't grasp that for whatever reason.

2. The coach learned the wrong way to volley and is passng on poor information because that is what he got used to and knows how to demonstrate even though it is poor technique.

3. The student didn't understand what the coach really said.

Either way, I normally teach that a volley is performed with a U-shaped arm on both sides and the dominant muscle in the arm is the shoulder and not the forearm area.

The volley is mainly a high-low-high swing and the elbow does not roll over or do weird things as a player sends his racquet through the ball.

Much of the volley is prepared and performed by the lower body. Eye-levle is important to maintain. You dont want to be too high over the ball or too lower under the ball. Also, with such a short motion, the volley is performed by the slight momentum you create.

Usually the first thing to correct in a volley is a players natural tendency to move back and then forward. This is why the tip "do what is natural" doesn't work. In this case, you would engrain a bad habit.

[fuzz nation]

Yeah, hard to say exactly what's going on with this player and the direction that her coach is trying to steer her toward. Let's not bury anyone until this friend of Cindy's gets some time to work toward a more finished product. I wouldn't be surprised if she's working with some new cues to help get rid of some bad habits or something. If she only took one lesson on this, I think it's safe to say that there's still a ways to go.

Concerning the best sources of energy for good volleys, I'll agree that it's just about impossible to really put a good move on a ball when you're only making a quick reaction volley to push it back over the net. The legs really are the best engines for these shots though, and an especially good habit to learn for better overall volleys is to carry a little forward momentum into that split-step as you set up to respond to an opponent's shot.

If that ball isn't drilled at you and there's time for a deliberate forward move through the volley with footwork, then life is good. But even if you have to make a quick grab to shovel the ball back over the net, that slight forward momentum will help the volley more than if the hitter is stuck on their heels. This is part of the preparation that any decent volleyer needs to use routinely while at the net. Even if the ball doesn't come to you, your constant preparation will have you moving forward and backing off in the middle of a rally as you constantly reset to go forward through any ball that comes your way.

[Cindysphinx]

Here's the thing, though. Her volleys had a lot of underspin on them, so they were very effective. I mean, I was at baseline, so I couldn't reach them because they were so short and had so much slice.

If she can hit this shot while close to the net, maybe it is possible to do it while farther from the net?

We've talked about volleys a lot, and I think she finds my volleys one-dimensional. And I have to admit that they are. I rarely hit a volley winner that is short, as I lack touch and feel. If I hit a short volley winner, it was usually a mis-hit. If I get a volley when I am close to net, I usually try to angle it off or punch it deep with pace to take away the opponent's time.

So yeah, I only attempt to hit one kind of volley -- a drive. That's why I am wondering whether I could benefit by trying some of what she is doing.

Jrod, my pro has tried to teach me a drop volley in the way you describe, where you almost try to catch the ball on your strings. So far, no soup for me.

[Bungalo Bill]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Here's the thing, though. Her volleys had a lot of underspin on them, so they were very effective. I mean, I was at baseline, so I couldn't reach them because they were so short and had so much slice.

If she can hit this shot while close to the net, maybe it is possible to do it while farther from the net?

We've talked about volleys a lot, and I think she finds my volleys one-dimensional. And I have to admit that they are. I rarely hit a volley winner that is short, as I lack touch and feel. If I hit a short volley winner, it was usually a mis-hit. If I get a volley when I am close to net, I usually try to angle it off or punch it deep with pace to take away the opponent's time.

So yeah, I only attempt to hit one kind of volley -- a drive. That's why I am wondering whether I could benefit by trying some of what she is doing.

Jrod, my pro has tried to teach me a drop volley in the way you describe, where you almost try to catch the ball on your strings. So far, no soup for me.

Sounds like to me she is straightening the arm somwhat to stiffen it and reduce the elasticity in the shot. This provides a deader shot and with underspin it won't go very far. Speciality shot to me.

[Nellie]

I think that if the ball is coming to you slowly, this may be fine, but as soon as the pace picks up, the timing of hitting with a big stroke motion is too hard

[jrod]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

...Jrod, my pro has tried to teach me a drop volley in the way you describe, where you almost try to catch the ball on your strings. So far, no soup for me.

Keep at it. You will start to develop a good feel for the ball with the catch or deflect and hit drill.

Last summer my son and I lowered the badminton net in the front yard and grabbed our frames and started to play lawn tennis. Now my lawn maintenance skills are well, I don't really possess any lawn maintenance skills whatsoever. So, as you can imagine it doesn't really pay to let the ball bounce. So the game we play invovles probably 90% volleys, and the court dimensions are consistent with badminton court (i.e. 17' wide by 22 deep per side, or smallish even compared with mini-tennis court dimensions).

Try it sometime...It's amazing how much fun this is and how much it improves your touch volleys. Keep the dog tied up though...

[Bungalo Bill]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Jrod, my pro has tried to teach me a drop volley in the way you describe, where you almost try to catch the ball on your strings. So far, no soup for me.

Soften those hands girl.

You also might want to learn how to catch a ball with your racquet. Sort of like catching an egg in those egg toss games at picnics. Start out close and slow and work your way up.

Otherwise, drive the darn thing and put it away.

[larry10s]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Here's the thing, though. Her volleys had a lot of underspin on them, so they were very effective. I mean, I was at baseline, so I couldn't reach them because they were so short and had so much slice.

If she can hit this shot while close to the net, maybe it is possible to do it while farther from the net?

We've talked about volleys a lot, and I think she finds my volleys one-dimensional. And I have to admit that they are. I rarely hit a volley winner that is short, as I lack touch and feel. If I hit a short volley winner, it was usually a mis-hit. If I get a volley when I am close to net, I usually try to angle it off or punch it deep with pace to take away the opponent's time.

So yeah, I only attempt to hit one kind of volley -- a drive. That's why I am wondering whether I could benefit by trying some of what she is doing.

Jrod, my pro has tried to teach me a drop volley in the way you describe, where you almost try to catch the ball on your strings. So far, no soup for me.

if you get a high ball and stick your volley at the net person isnt that a winner??? if you get a low ball you cant hit it with as much pace but if you maintain that u position of your arm and soften your hands you can hit an angled winner. the drill suggested above to have someone feed you a ball you you make the ball bounce up then volley it winll teach you to take pace off the ball coming in as you need to for a drop volley. cindysphinx with all your lessons and reading if something comes up you havent seen or heard i would be leary of trying to mimic it. imho

[LeeD]

Girlfriend....
When you volley, you need deep with pace, soft with angle or DTL, medium low placement volleys between you opponents but to netmans feet, and also safe putaway volleys that NEVER miss.
Just like serves, you need more than one.
When an opponent WARMS UP hitting your friend's volleys, I know to tell my partner NOT to pick on it until an important point, then hit there, MOVE IN, and put the ball away.
Variety IN TENNIS is the spice of life.
You don't only hit flat fast serves.
You don't only hit hard topspin groundies.
So you shouldn't volley the same each time.

[W Cats]

I believe that coaching/teaching is not just about having the student replicate a particular shot done in an ideal way - in this case the volley. Sometimes a particluar component of a shot or skill needs to be pulled out from the ideal and highlighted to the extreme of either side of the continuum in order to address or explore the issue at hand. Of course after you've pulled it out and tinkered with it needs to be plugged back into the right context.

1. High to low slicing type action - who hasn't heard of this before

2. Straight arm on the BH side - I've seen it in Dave's Smith book

3. Open stance - reaction volleys anyone.

You might think I'm full of it - sometimes I am more than others

But check out this vid and take a look at some of blue/whites volleys -he's go some game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH2l9...793627&index=3

I just find it hard to instantly dis the pro when something could have been taken out of context. Especially if some of the students volleys proved effective against and opponent.