The speed of the game - old vs. new

[NLBwell]

While watching 2008 Aussi semis of Fed. vs. Djokovic on the TV and watching Laver vs. Roche on the computer (yes, I'm crazy) I was struck by how much faster the old grass-court game was than the modern game. With players serving and volleying, the distance between the players is much shorter (even more so when both are at the net). The old game is much quicker with players having to react and move faster. The position of the player at the net takes the time away from the opponent instead of the velocity of the ball.
Though tall guys could be very successful because of big serves and reach at the net (Smith, Newcombe), smaller guys could use their quickness around the court to get to the volleys and pass, as well as get to the net quickly to volley and back to retrieve lobs. Even though there were guys in the old game 6'7" or so with big games, their effectiveness was limited by their relative lack of quickness. People these days talk about how fast the ball moves, but the game today is much slower.

[timnz]

Yes, you are correct. The common myth is that the modern game is so much faster that in the 'old days'. Actually it is completely the opposite. The biggest part of slowing the game is the court surfaces. Witness the near extension of indoor carpet and the considerable slowdown at Wimbledon. If you go back to the 50's and 60's you had laid canvas surfaces that were superfast.

I wonder if current players could have handled the old timers if they played them with the rackets of the period. I highly doubt it.

[35ft6]

When people say the game is faster today they're talking about the mobility of the athletes and the speed of their shots. Surfaces seem much slower, that's for sure.

[Datacipher]

Originally Posted by 35ft6

When people say the game is faster today they're talking about the mobility of the athletes and the speed of their shots. Surfaces seem much slower, that's for sure.

Then they are horribly ignorant. The mobility of the athletes hasn't changed at all at the top of the game, though it might be a TINY bit faster on average. Speed of shots is also about the same, though, there is more spin now on average: in this sense the average shot is more powerful.

[dropshot winner]

Originally Posted by Datacipher

Then they are horribly ignorant. The mobility of the athletes hasn't changed at all at the top of the game, though it might be a TINY bit faster on average. Speed of shots is also about the same, though, there is more spin now on average: in this sense the average shot is more powerful.

The balls are heavier and bigger than before, so even if the shot itself is traveling at the same speed and spin compared to a ball of the 60/70s, it is tougher to controll.

[fps]

Originally Posted by Datacipher

Then they are horribly ignorant. The mobility of the athletes hasn't changed at all at the top of the game, though it might be a TINY bit faster on average. Speed of shots is also about the same, though, there is more spin now on average: in this sense the average shot is more powerful.

what data do you have to back this up? i see players now hitting the ball harder than ever from the ground, despite the heavier balls.

and i doubt tennis is the only sport on earth where the players haven't become fitter, faster and more mobile.

[Blade0324]

Sorry but I have to disagree with the OP in all aspects. The speed of the ball is substantially faster today than it was in the older days. Serves are faster on average as are groundstrokes. Also the players are generally across the board a bit faster today than they used to be. There were some very quick players back in the day but on the whole players today are in better shape and faster. The speed of the courts today is a bit slower than it used to be and I feel like this is due to the fact that players hit the ball harder today so the court speed has slowed a bit to level the playing field so to speak.

[TMF]

Originally Posted by Datacipher

Then they are horribly ignorant. The mobility of the athletes hasn't changed at all at the top of the game, though it might be a TINY bit faster on average. Speed of shots is also about the same, though, there is more spin now on average: in this sense the average shot is more powerful.

And it's also horribly ridiculous when claiming something you don't have any evidence to backup. How often you see players in the past hit 130+ mph first serve? How often you see a 100+ mhp forehand in the past? How often you see players hitting winners from both wings from the baseline in the past? And there's a reason for players are cautious to rush the net today.

[raiden031]

Originally Posted by Datacipher

Then they are horribly ignorant. The mobility of the athletes hasn't changed at all at the top of the game, though it might be a TINY bit faster on average. Speed of shots is also about the same, though, there is more spin now on average: in this sense the average shot is more powerful.

So fitness experts have learned nothing in the past 30 to 40 years?

[NamRanger]

Originally Posted by TMF

And it's also horribly ridiculous when claiming something you don't have any evidence to backup. How often you see players in the past hit 130+ mph first serve? How often you see a 100+ mhp forehand in the past? How often you see players hitting winners from both wings from the baseline in the past? And there's a reason for players are cautious to rush the net today.

Radar guns today measure much more "accurately" than they did in the 1990s. Pretty good example is Agassi who in a decade added 10+ mph on his serve on average. Now, I know Agassi's serve got better, but let's be honest. I'm pretty sure Agassi didn't add 10+ mph on his serve from 95 to 2005.

[kishnabe]

Laver vs Roche on the aussie open was awesome, it was fast and entertaining. I have seen Borg Vs John McEnroe wimbledon 1980 and I don't feel the same. Maybe in the 1960's and 70's it was faster than the 80's. Then 90's and 20's were faster than 80's. Im just guessing. I still think the serve and volley game is better than today's modern game. Maybe federer wins to much really gets annoying. Watching edberg,becker,borg,lendl,McEnroe, connors, laver,roche and rosewall is pretty fun.

[Chadwixx]

Originally Posted by NamRanger

Now, I know Agassi's serve got better, but let's be honest. I'm pretty sure Agassi didn't add 10+ mph on his serve from 95 to 2005.

He physically got alot better which would explain his bigger serve. Look at pics from 1995 and compare them to 2000+. Its night and day.

Players hit harder and the courts are slower.

[NamRanger]

Originally Posted by Chadwixx

He physically got alot better which would explain his bigger serve. Look at pics from 1995 and compare them to 2000+. Its night and day.

Players hit harder and the courts are slower.

I'm not sure if he could add 10 mph on his serve purely from strength though. That kind of an increase in speed should constitute some kind of technique improvement.



Even Agassi said he was surprised that his serve was measured so high.

[Chadwixx]

He got alot stronger, he was scrawny until around 1998. Take a look at him in like 1993 when he was wearing the pink spandex under the denium, he had tiny arms and a gut.

He was hitting everything harder, not just the serve.

Ive been doing a few bench press's and it does help your serve alot, at least it does me.

[sureshs]

Quickness is not the same as ball speed.

[AAAA]

I've seen matches between Goran, Becker, Sampras, Federer on grass and they were much faster than this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHaN2h21ANs

Also how is comparing a serve volley match on old grass vs a modern baseline match on a slowish hard court comparable?

[35ft6]

Originally Posted by Datacipher

Then they are horribly ignorant. The mobility of the athletes hasn't changed at all at the top of the game, though it might be a TINY bit faster on average.

Over time, the players have become a lot more athletic. So I disagree with you. And really, maybe you're one of those dudes who become even more of a devil's advocate as the consensus grows, but commentators, players, trainers, and coaches agree.

The differences become more striking the farther back in time you go. Roddick in a recent press conference said that the game now is more about "legs" and less about ball striking. Maybe an overstatement, but I understand what he's saying. Not long ago, can't remember which tournament, but male players were skidding and falling all over the place. Never in the 80's did I see anything remotely close to that. It was a hard court tournament. And everybody keeps saying the courts are being slowed down, so that must mean a grittier surface with more bite and traction, but guys were falling down left and right. The commentators were talking about how they hoped no major injuries were caused, how it was an alarming thing. Guys are just running harder, having to change directions quicker, moving more aggressively.

Maybe tennis is attracting better athletes, or maybe they're just training better. When Lendl cross trained and did tons of off court work, people constantly went on about that. Now it's the norm. What we're seeing now is a generation of players who grew doing extensive footwork, strength, agility, flexibility, reflex, etc, drills since they were young. It's applied science. You can bet McEnroe wasn't doing the stuff Fed was doing...

Trying to find that video of Fed and that Asian junior being put through the paces.

[President of Serve/Volley]

Faster Speed: The older generation would have a field day vs today's crop if you put them on carpet. Put Stefan Edberg vs Rafael Nadal on carpet, boy that won't be fun to watch.

Naturally, today's tennis, Nadal would likely dominant him. I actually miss the old mixed up styles of super quick tennis.

[fps]

so basically, the courts are slower, the balls are designed to be slower, the players are on average more athletic and the players are hitting harder.

done.

[kOaMaster]

there is one point I certainly agree:
serve & volley does make it look faster. you don't have 25-30 meters to react but maybe only 15 (plus the ball is slowing down). but so it was in the 90s.

now you don't want to tell me that a) fitnes, b) the technique and c) the technology didn't improve in the last 40 years?
you've got to be kidding me. try hitting a 240km/h serve with a wooden racket + the ball from 40 years ago. and I think all the athletes got A LOT fitter than those days - like in maybe all sports.

the only ignorant or naive person in here @ datacypher....