Who had the better backhand?

[35ft6]

Originally Posted by hoodjem

I don't think Fed is a great player because he has a 1Hbh, and I don't think Fed is a great player despite having a 1Hbh.

When Fed was first emerging, people were already saying he might have the best one hander in the game. People talked glowingly about his backhand. It might break down against Nadal on clay, but what other player have you seen consistently exploit his so called weak backhand? Just saying, it can't keep up with the best left handed forehand in tennis history, and probably one of the top 5 best forehands in tennis history PERIOD, on clay, but his backhand is still one of the best strokes in tennis.

[hoodjem]

Originally Posted by 35ft6

. . . but his backhand is still one of the best strokes in tennis.

Alright, as long as you're talking about the present game of tennis.

[hoodjem]

Originally Posted by 35ft6

and probably one of the top 5 best forehands in tennis history PERIOD, . . .

I would agree with this.

[World Beater]

Originally Posted by abmk

I agree with your views on the federer BH being under-rated and the so called weakness being over-stated. The bold part is so true.

Lendl's BH held up better on clay, for sure, but he didn't have to deal with a nadal . His BH was better than fed's on clay, but on the other surfaces, fed's better. overall fed by a slim margin

As far as guga is concerned, I'd put his BH ahead of fed by some margin. His BH on clay was great and could be spectacular on other surfaces when he was on

grass is a surface too. The gap between federer and guga on the bh side is bigger on grass for fed than on clay for guga.

Federer is also way better defensively than kuerten off the bh side.

kuerten def gets the nod on clay but federer has the edge on hardcourts and on faster surfaces - grass and indoors.

federer also passes much better than kuerten off the bh side and returns better off the bh side. federer also has more touch off the bh side. has a better drop shot and overall more options + versatility.

kuerten obviously has the better topspin drive which is emphasized on surfaces that are slower and are higher bouncing - clay.

kuerten's swing is long and loopy. he cannot consistently take balls on the rise off the bh side. Federer can half volley and take the ball on the rise on the bh side. federer struggles with the high topspin though on clay from a player like nadal - but pretty much everyone does.

Federer is better at balls on bh side that are below the level of the waist - this mainly due to grip.



overall: federer.

[World Beater]

Originally Posted by hoodjem

Alright, as long as you're talking about the present game of tennis.

do you not think its more difficult to execute a shot when the balls are travelling faster and with more spin?

even the recreational player can execute some great shots when balls are travelling at slow speeds with a relatively low RPM.

however, amp the speed and the rpms and players are bound to shank the ball more especially for someone who has exceptional racket head speed like federer. Federer will shank more but he will also produce more proportionally.

to be able to execute flat drives and topspin shots against shots coming with the velocities of today's game is very difficult. Not to mention the skill, reflexes required to stop the ball dead and play finesse with angles when reaction time is so little. Bhs of today absolutely merit consideration when discussing GOAT bhs and since federer's is among the best of today - he should also be mentioned.

laver himself admires federer not for his forehand but for his backhand. sampras admires federer for his backhand...even nadal and nalbandian - two players who have had success against federer hold this stroke in high esteem.

i just dont think you can compare strokes from today to those of the past. Obviously, lendl is going to shank less when the balls are travelling slower and his racquet head speed is slower.

[Carsomyr]

Originally Posted by Datacipher

I agree, Fed's backhand is NOT as good as Lendl's.

Originally Posted by Datacipher

Hi Agassiman,

The real answer is, Lendl, but it's quite close. Sampras' backhand is highly underrated, by...um...the ignorant. LOL. It held up well under persistent attack from people like Agassi and Courier. Lendl's actually, often resorted to chip underspin when under attack from players like Agassi. Lendl's chip, was good enough to prevent consistent attack, but it was hardly overwhelming, just enough to keep the point going and going and going (which Lendl was very happy with).

Sampras' actually had a better topspin high roller, than Lendl, due to his grip which was further around than Lendl's continental. It also made it easier for Sampras to take high bouncing balls, (lendl often had to slice them, though he did have the upper body strength to just muscle them when he had to).

People often forget that Lendl didn't really blow people away with the backhand all that much. He mostly used it to stay in the point (slice), move the ball around (his topspin drives), and set up the forehand or get the error. His biggest blasts were often saved for the passing shots. Here, he could be deadly, especially after he developed a great crosscourt pass(a weakness for him early on). But, Sampras was also a sharpshooter on passing shots.

Anyways, overall, Lendl, but it's not nearly as one-sided as people here portray.

Sorry for using the transitive property, but does this mean you feel Sampras has a better backhand than Federer?

[abmk]

Originally Posted by World Beater

grass is a surface too. The gap between federer and guga on the bh side is bigger on grass for fed than on clay for guga.

Federer is also way better defensively than kuerten off the bh side.

kuerten def gets the nod on clay but federer has the edge on hardcourts and on faster surfaces - grass and indoors.

federer also passes much better than kuerten off the bh side and returns better off the bh side. federer also has more touch off the bh side. has a better drop shot and overall more options + versatility.

kuerten obviously has the better topspin drive which is emphasized on surfaces that are slower and are higher bouncing - clay.

kuerten's swing is long and loopy. he cannot consistently take balls on the rise off the bh side. Federer can half volley and take the ball on the rise on the bh side. federer struggles with the high topspin though on clay from a player like nadal - but pretty much everyone does.

Federer is better at balls on bh side that are below the level of the waist - this mainly due to grip.

overall: federer.

fair enough, for some reason, at that moment I was mainly considering the BH in baseline rallies, if we're taking the return and passing shots into consideration, then yeah there isn't much of a difference at all - kuerten on clay, federer on grass,indoors ; HC is a tossup ( I'd take fed, but kuerten never fulfilled his potential on HC and career was cut short by injuries, his BH when on could be more lethal than fed's on HC )

[World Beater]

Originally Posted by abmk

fair enough, for some reason, at that moment I was mainly considering the BH in baseline rallies, if we're taking the return and passing shots into consideration, then yeah there isn't much of a difference at all - kuerten on clay, federer on grass,indoors ; HC is a tossup ( I'd take fed, but kuerten never fulfilled his potential on HC and career was cut short by injuries, his BH when on could be more lethal than fed's on HC )

i dont see how HC is a tossup. Kuerten was pathetic in HC slams during his HC prime. Yes he had a few good matches / tournaments...masters cup and cincy.

but federer can match that on hardcourts and has had many days where his bh drive would match those of the very best. Also, federer has had days on clay where his bh has been impeccable. He has also had days when his bh has been off. But so has kuerten, agassi, gaudio, nalbandian...everyone.

citing's kuerten's potential is another coulda woulda argument.

also. if you want to claim kuerten's topspin drive is better than federer's on clay. i have no problem with that. But to me it doesn't make sense to isolate the drive. You should consider the total package on the bh side.

Kuerten's choice of grip enables him to have a great bh on clay and to be able to handle high balls due to his loopy swing. But he sacrifices many other things to possess this.

[madhavan]

I think Fed has a much faster trigger on the backhand than Guga since his backswing is a lot more compact. As a result, his backhand return of serve is better on the faster surfaces + he can play closer to the baseline than Guga did. His quick trigger also enables Fed to execute those sick bh half-volleys from the baseline + short-angle flick passing shots.

[rod99]

Originally Posted by World Beater

do you not think its more difficult to execute a shot when the balls are travelling faster and with more spin?

even the recreational player can execute some great shots when balls are travelling at slow speeds with a relatively low RPM.

however, amp the speed and the rpms and players are bound to shank the ball more especially for someone who has exceptional racket head speed like federer. Federer will shank more but he will also produce more proportionally.

to be able to execute flat drives and topspin shots against shots coming with the velocities of today's game is very difficult. Not to mention the skill, reflexes required to stop the ball dead and play finesse with angles when reaction time is so little. Bhs of today absolutely merit consideration when discussing GOAT bhs and since federer's is among the best of today - he should also be mentioned.

laver himself admires federer not for his forehand but for his backhand. sampras admires federer for his backhand...even nadal and nalbandian - two players who have had success against federer hold this stroke in high esteem.

i just dont think you can compare strokes from today to those of the past. Obviously, lendl is going to shank less when the balls are travelling slower and his racquet head speed is slower.

yes, it's more difficult to pull off great shots when the ball is traveling faster, however it's also easier to pull off these shots when you have advanced technology, specifically today's strings which allow you to do things with the ball that players in the 80s would never have dreamed of.

[abmk]

Originally Posted by World Beater

i dont see how HC is a tossup. Kuerten was pathetic in HC slams during his HC prime. Yes he had a few good matches / tournaments...masters cup and cincy.

but federer can match that on hardcourts and has had many days where his bh drive would match those of the very best. Also, federer has had days on clay where his bh has been impeccable. He has also had days when his bh has been off. But so has kuerten, agassi, gaudio, nalbandian...everyone.

citing's kuerten's potential is another coulda woulda argument.

also. if you want to claim kuerten's topspin drive is better than federer's on clay. i have no problem with that. But to me it doesn't make sense to isolate the drive. You should consider the total package on the bh side.

Kuerten's choice of grip enables him to have a great bh on clay and to be able to handle high balls due to his loopy swing. But he sacrifices many other things to possess this.

Again, kuerten's HC results are not necessarily reflective of his BH on that surface.

And yes a coulda woulda argument, couldn't help it !

[World Beater]

Originally Posted by abmk

Again, kuerten's HC results are not necessarily reflective of his BH on that surface.

And yes a coulda woulda argument, couldn't help it !

tell me what is it...then?

his fh and bh have similar mechanics and his fh was actually equally effective - its just his bh got more attention because it was a shot with more flair.

his movement in his prime was decent. his serve was effective. His return was very average but still.

his bh and his overall game were not that effective on HC or on faster surfaces. did he have good days - yes he did but he had many bad days.

[World Beater]

Originally Posted by rod99

yes, it's more difficult to pull off great shots when the ball is traveling faster, however it's also easier to pull off these shots when you have advanced technology, specifically today's strings which allow you to do things with the ball that players in the 80s would never have dreamed of.

advanced technology only works if you have the hand eye -coord and skills to take advantage of it.

also both sides of the net are using advanced tech and hitting these so called great shots against each other, so it there is no added advantage that players of today have because both sides of the net have the same equipment. "the advanced tech gets canceled out"

However, both sides of the net in today's game have less reaction time, and as a result have to be more athletic and precise. The game has gotten harder not easier. Finesse is harder to execute when the ball is faster and when there is increased spin on the ball due to string tech!