Vortex Extreme Spin Rackets

[tailofdog]

Originally Posted by haerdalis

How can control be any good on volleys with a frame like the ES 133?

I slice across the ball on Volleys as well as moving foward. If you see the BIG BUBBA it has a thin frame and 65 flex maybe that is the reason. Also on kick serves it provided more kick than any other racquet i have used.
So i assume it must be the surface area?

[Murray Mound]

Originally Posted by tailofdog

I will share what i know and perhaps you can point me in the right direction.
I play at a 4.0 level and will be 62 in june. I play with a 12 0z racquet and know that weight provides power and keeps the racquet going through the ball not, comming off as you due with a lighter racquet.
I also know there is more bad image on the super oversize than facts warrant.
It,s just not comfotable when people have negative comments about your gear.(ask the former owners of wonder wand)
Now since none of the Vortex racquets have any weight to speak of what direction would be better for me? I have played from 93 to 137 sq in racquets and have been playing for a long time. I use a 105 head now and would probably normally look at the ES 108. Since it only weighs 10.5 oz I will ask this question. Iknow that any racquet over 27.5 becomes more difficult on one handed bathe whole range is game improvementckhands. the exception to this is light weight racquets which become easy to move around.
By definition . As tom plays 4.5 Senior tennis i, would assume this is good at that reasonable level.
I am very sincere in asking you what are the advantages and drawbacks of the different models. Joesch comments on the lighter weight being no problem
made me look at these as i know he is a very experenced player.
On the Facebook (VORTEX) at 5.0 level winner one is using the ES 116 and 1
4.0 winner is using the ES 133.
So any answers to the + and - of different models will be appreciated

there is no substitute for demoing. And you try a racquet out and excahnge it in 30 days with Tom.

But I will tell what I think is the best for you....even though it may be wrong.

At age 62 I really think you will freaking love both the 116 & 133.....and I think you will go up a level with the 133 for sure.

General racquet principles don't apply to the Vortex becaise of the stringing system and the racquet construction .

Everyone talks about the strings, but the racquet is actually equally unique. The 133 is the only racquet that size that is unbelievably head light. You will not believe the control. You will be swing around this boat of a stick and you will be just as maneuvarble.

The 133 is longer than any racquet I have seen and the 116 is also pretty long . If you don't hit with huge topspin and have short strokes either racquet will do. I don't know of you will like the 116 or 133 better. But I'm telling you there are no racquets on the market that volley better than these things .

It's all sweet spot, it's huge, and it's as maneuverable as an 85 square inch racquet. Return of serve are AMAZING with the 133.

If you take a big swing at your serve however the 133 may not be the way to go and you might want to opt for the 116.

Either way you won't believe how great your volleys and return of serves will be with the 133. You are going to be blown away, I promise .

A pro hit the hardest shot he could at me with it . I lunged and hit am I believable winner from the net. We were both amazed. The 133 is very very hard to beat at the net.

Your singles play will improve immensely. Not only will you get to far more balls with the 133 ( and 116) but they will be winners.

But remember , these sticks were meant for short groundstrokes . The racquet will do most of the work.

133 report card

volley A++++

serves A for novice C for advanced

return of serves A +++++

groundies.....B + for novice D for advanced

overheads A++++++++ ( never miss an overhead again)

slices.....b+ for novice , C for advanced

THE 116 is the same as the 133 but if you have slightly bigger strokes then this would be the way to go. You have to try both. But the 133 in certain departments is the best racquet ever made

[Murray Mound]

Originally Posted by haerdalis

How can control be any good on volleys with a frame like the ES 133?

Because unlike other huge frames the 133 is really head lite. About 8 points O think. All the other racquets of similar size are head heavy . It's huge and it's unbelievably maneuvarable.

The stringing stystem also helps. You see the top of the racquet is very low tension. when you hot a volley near the top of a racquet with a conventional frame it's never a strong volley amd usually a net ball. But with the low pressure of the vortex not only will the ball get over the net but it will be a winner .

The 133 is very very hard to beat in anyones hands . It's really a very special stick. But I
would have to say that more people love the 116 because it does everything the 133 does but with a little less power and more maneuverability.

[Murray Mound]

Tail,

the 133 looks even bigger than it's size becaise the strings are so far apart they give the appearemce that it's more like a 153.

The racquet looks GIGANTIC....more so than any racquet I have seen . You are going ti feel funny about using it. But I promise that foe volleys, return of serves,overheads you will never find a better racquet. Hell you could serve underhand and your opponent still would not get the ball by you with this maneuvarable boat of a racquet.

[haerdalis]

I can believe getting the racquet in the way of the ball is easy but aiming and punching the volley with good control is another thing.

I cant wait till I get mine, the 108 I am trying.
Still the perfect volleyracquet for me would be one with the stability and punch of a wilson tour 90 and the maneuverability of a 26" junior racquet.

[tailofdog]

Originally Posted by Murray Mound

Because unlike other huge frames the 133 is really head lite. About 8 points O think. All the other racquets of similar size are head heavy . It's huge and it's unbelievably maneuvarable.

The stringing stystem also helps. You see the top of the racquet is very low tension. when you hot a volley near the top of a racquet with a conventional frame it's never a strong volley amd usually a net ball. But with the low pressure of the vortex not only will the ball get over the net but it will be a winner .

The 133 is very very hard to beat in anyones hands . It's really a very special stick. But I
would have to say that more people love the 116 because it does everything the 133 does but with a little less power and more maneuverability.

Becaue i live in Australia i will probably have to get the right one first up.
If the 116 has less power i will probably look at that. I will e-mail Tom as he is older and knows his racquet quirks first hand. What i don,t want is a racquet that sends the ball into the fence. My PROKENNEX KI 15PSE has the right power for me. I would not be able to control it,s power if not for topspin.
So i have until the middle of may to make up my mind.

[Murray Mound]

Originally Posted by tailofdog

Becaue i live in Australia i will probably have to get the right one first up.
If the 116 has less power i will probably look at that. I will e-mail Tom as he is older and knows his racquet quirks first hand. What i don,t want is a racquet that sends the ball into the fence. My PROKENNEX KI 15PSE has the right power for me. I would not be able to control it,s power if not for topspin.
So i have until the middle of may to make up my mind.

It doesn't work like most racquets. The stringing system really makes a difference. The 116 is probably the safer choice.

[Murray Mound]

Originally Posted by haerdalis

I can believe getting the racquet in the way of the ball is easy but aiming and punching the volley with good control is another thing.

I cant wait till I get mine, the 108 I am trying.
Still the perfect volleyracquet for me would be one with the stability and punch of a
wilson tour 90 and the maneuverability of a 26" junior racquet.

I completely I agree. I thought the same thing....but I was wrong.

I never would even try a racquet over 98. So for kicks I tried all four models. The 133 was absolutely incredible for volleys.....unbelievable.
However I play with the 100 because the 133 was just too powerful for my ground strokes and serves. But for volleys and return of serves.....OMG! Best stick in those departments known to man! It defys logic.

[haerdalis]

I got the racquet today. Played an hour with it and even if it might not be a racquet I will consider my main stick it was very good indeed. Control was better than expected. Stability was ok considering it is lightweight and headlight. It was easy hitting angles but the spin wasnt heavy. On serves I got good kick and slice but again the ball wasnt heavy.
Volleys were actually quite good. The gain in maneuverabilty seemed bigger than the loss of stability. Directional control was not bad.
My best shot with this racquet was my backhand slice. However my topspin backhand didnt work at all.
Very interesting design. This must be better than most game improvement frames out there. It reminded me a little bit of the völkl powerarm but with much better control.

[BlaackSheeep]

Originally Posted by Murray Mound

I completely I agree. I thought the same thing....but I was wrong.

I never would even try a racquet over 98. So for kicks I tried all four models. The 133 was absolutely incredible for volleys.....unbelievable.
However I play with the 100 because the 133 was just too powerful for my ground strokes and serves. But for volleys and return of serves.....OMG! Best stick in those departments known to man! It defys logic.

I have both the ES116 and the ES100 and I think the 116 is a better and more versatile racket. I think I can do anything with the 116. I originally started this thread to gain some insight on the 100 and after reading a few posts about it I ordered one. But I can say now the 116 is a superior racket for what I use it for: doubles. And for those people that don't think the 116 is a topspin stick, I kick fairly dead balls on groundstrokes 6 feet in the air routinely. The 100 is good too, but not that good. I have the 133 on order now too and I can't wait for that baby. For those that think the ES116 is a granny stick, I'm 6'3" and 225 lbs. and I spend about 4-6 hours in the gym every week lifting weights to try to compensate for being 51 years old. I'm stronger that most of the people I play, and the Vortex helps me make up for my lack of speed.

[tailofdog]

Originally Posted by BlaackSheeep

I have both the ES116 and the ES100 and I think the 116 is a better and more versatile racket. I think I can do anything with the 116. I originally started this thread to gain some insight on the 100 and after reading a few posts about it I ordered one. But I can say now the 116 is a superior racket for what I use it for: doubles. And for those people that don't think the 116 is a topspin stick, I kick fairly dead balls on groundstrokes 6 feet in the air routinely. The 100 is good too, but not that good. I have the 133 on order now too and I can't wait for that baby. For those that think the ES116 is a granny stick, I'm 6'3" and 225 lbs. and I spend about 4-6 hours in the gym every week lifting weights to try to compensate for being 51 years old. I'm stronger that most of the people I play, and the Vortex helps me make up for my lack of speed.

I was waiting for your experience. Did i see 2 Es 116 in the for sale from you?
I have seen a lot of good players using light racquets and its the only way to compensate for that length on one handed backhands.
The other thing is you cant expect miracles from any racquet but, any advantage is a plus that is hard to come buy.

[Murray Mound]

Originally Posted by BlaackSheeep

I have both the ES116 and the ES100 and I think the 116 is a better and more versatile racket. I think I can do anything with the 116. I originally started this thread to gain some insight on the 100 and after reading a few posts about it I ordered one. But I can say now the 116 is a superior racket for what I use it for: doubles. And for those people that don't think the 116 is a topspin stick, I kick fairly dead balls on groundstrokes 6 feet in the air routinely. The 100 is good too, but not that good. I have the 133 on order now too and I can't wait for that baby. For those that think the ES116 is a granny stick, I'm 6'3" and 225 lbs. and I spend about 4-6 hours in the gym every week lifting weights to try to compensate for being 51 years old. I'm stronger that most of the people I play, and the Vortex helps me make up for my lack of speed.

The 116 is an awesome stick! And probably the most versatile. people LOVE that stick.

But there is no one stick for everyone. I think the 116 is probably better than the 100 for volleys and return of serves and maybe even overheads. but I need a far less powerful racquet for my serve. In fact i wish they made a thin beamed 95.

bottom line : "different strokes for different folks" means different people will like different sticks.

For me the 100 is the best but I certainly can see why you love the 116. its a GREAT GREAT stick.

[Murray Mound]

Originally Posted by haerdalis

I got the racquet today. Played an hour with it and even if it might not be a racquet I will consider my main stick it was very good indeed. Control was better than expected. Stability was ok considering it is lightweight and headlight. It was easy hitting angles but the spin wasnt heavy. On serves I got good kick and slice but again the ball wasnt heavy.
Volleys were actually quite good. The gain in maneuverabilty seemed bigger than the loss of stability. Directional control was not bad.
My best shot with this racquet was my backhand slice. However my topspin backhand didnt work at all.
Very interesting design. This must be better than most game improvement frames out there. It reminded me a little bit of the völkl powerarm but with much better control.

There is a slight learning curve with the stick. Also rememebr that you are using the stock strings. I string as high as 60 pounds on my stick with blue gear. i get some sick freaking topspin.

Which racquet diod you get?

[BlaackSheeep]

Originally Posted by tailofdog

I was waiting for your experience. Did i see 2 Es 116 in the for sale from you?
I have seen a lot of good players using light racquets and its the only way to compensate for that length on one handed backhands.
The other thing is you cant expect miracles from any racquet but, any advantage is a plus that is hard to come buy.

Yes but after playing with the 100 I decided to keep the ES116 and sell probably the 100

[Murray Mound]

Originally Posted by BlaackSheeep

Yes but after playing with the 100 I decided to keep the ES116 and sell probably the 100

How much? Actually I have a 116 as well....Ill trade you for it.

[BlaackSheeep]

Originally Posted by Murray Mound

How much? Actually I have a 116 as well....Ill trade you for it.

e-mail me at m.b.smith@hotmail.com and we will talk about it

[joe sch]

Originally Posted by haerdalis

I got the racquet today. Played an hour with it and even if it might not be a racquet I will consider my main stick it was very good indeed. Control was better than expected. Stability was ok considering it is lightweight and headlight. It was easy hitting angles but the spin wasnt heavy. On serves I got good kick and slice but again the ball wasnt heavy.
Volleys were actually quite good. The gain in maneuverabilty seemed bigger than the loss of stability. Directional control was not bad.
My best shot with this racquet was my backhand slice. However my topspin backhand didnt work at all.
Very interesting design. This must be better than most game improvement frames out there. It reminded me a little bit of the völkl powerarm but with much better control.

Glad your having some fun with the racket.
I also like slicing, especially on the BH side but find the topspin soo easy with these rackets that I mostly hit over all balls.
Maybe the factory string setup is too loose for you, try those MSV hex 1.2 strings at a higher tension, it may give you even better control.

[Murray Mound]

Originally Posted by joe sch

Glad your having some fun with the racket.
I also like slicing, especially on the BH side but find the topspin soo easy with these rackets that I mostly hit over all balls.
Maybe the factory string setup is too loose for you, try those MSV hex 1.2 strings at a higher tension, it may give you even better control.

Joe I know how much you love those MSV hex strings and I know how they got the string of the year and everything.

But you have got to try the blue gear with this stick. You get more spin but it also gives more control because of the incredible spin.

Another interesting thing is that I was watching the tennis channel and saw the show tennis destinations with that hot asian chick......anyway she was taking a lesson from Vilas. He said a lot of interesting things one of which was that the harder you actually swing with topspin the more the ball will go in.

I know it doesnt make sense but I just trusted the stick and swung for the fences with heavy topspin. The results were amazing. The amount of topspin I can hit with the Vortex /blue gear together with a huge topspin stroke is amazing. I almost have to close my eyes because if I think about what Im doing I will screw it up.

[haerdalis]

Originally Posted by joe sch

Glad your having some fun with the racket.
I also like slicing, especially on the BH side but find the topspin soo easy with these rackets that I mostly hit over all balls.
Maybe the factory string setup is too loose for you, try those MSV hex 1.2 strings at a higher tension, it may give you even better control.

Yeah worked out great! Thanks alot for the service.
So now I am playing with the Vortex 108, Bab PST Ltd and Völkl PB 10 mid to see which one I like best. I like the feel of the Völkl, the looks of the Bab and the lightness and spin of the Vortex! The racquet is however too light for my backhand. Have to work on that. I think if I could actually hit my backhand and not just slice it I could play with this stick.
Going to try those other strings. Arent you supposed to string it at low tension? I strung my Völkl at 42 lbs and the Bab at 36 lbs and the feel very good.

[Murray Mound]

Originally Posted by haerdalis

Yeah worked out great! Thanks alot for the service.
So now I am playing with the Vortex 108, Bab PST Ltd and Völkl PB 10 mid to see which one I like best. I like the feel of the Völkl, the looks of the Bab and the lightness and spin of the Vortex! The racquet is however too light for my backhand. Have to work on that. I think if I could actually hit my backhand and not just slice it I could play with this stick.
Going to try those other strings. Arent you supposed to string it at low tension? I strung my Völkl at 42 lbs and the Bab at 36 lbs and the feel very good.

You can string at any tension you want. Wade....Toms son plays at 58 pounds.

Also rememebr that strings lose tension very rapidly. If you string at 58 in a few weeks you will be playing with a 48.