Greatest Forehands of All Time

[Terre Battu]

Pam Shriver =)

[Manus Domini]

Originally Posted by Terre Battu

Pam Shriver =)

Murray definately

[kiki]

Originally Posted by pc1

Did Segura marry Federer? lol.

Incidentally are we just discussing Federer's peak or do we also include performances now? I've seen (it's not often) performances by Federer's forehand not that different from the performance against Djokovic the other day. Remember that Federer is an active player and we view him often. He may have some bad performances with the forehand. Do we ignore that? Things can change, like the number of majors he has. Segura is retired and many of the others like Lendl has retired so Lendl's average forehand performance is not going to change.

Federer's not guaranteed first place here so we shouldn't be upset if he is not number one here all the time. We can make excellent arguments for many on this list for number one. For example Lendl has an excellent argument to be number one. He won 82% of his lifetime matches. Won over 90 percent of his matches in many years. He won over 140 tournaments in his career and won eight majors. Do we deny his dominance? He's third on this list. That's not bad.

Good list.Forget and Clerc may make a case for not getting into it, but I think it is pretty fair.I like Newc´s chances when we are talking of an attacking forehand, he could also be brilliant in passing shots.Since I´ve never watched Tilden or Vines or Johnston, i have no comments.

[Benhur]

I've been watching some tennis from the 90s. I am trying to get a visual impression of court speeds relative to today by comparing baseliners from the 80s, 90s and 00s, which I may report at some point if I arrive at any conclusion.

Reading through this thread, I must say that I find Courier's forehand pretty underrated. It was an awesome and beautiful stroke, more economical than most, no floriture, at least as powerful as Sampras', but much more precise and consistent. Maybe the underrating I observe is due to his relatively short stay at the top. I am referring to his forehand especially when he was a top 3 player in 91-93.

Best forehand by the decades I am most familiar with:

1980s: Lendl, by far
1990s: Courier, by far
2000s: Federer

I would have a hard time choosing between those three, but I could very well choose Courier's today.

[TopFH]

Wozniacki all the way!

[chrischris]

Berasategui ?

[Zimbo]

Originally Posted by Tennis Dunce

Au contraire, Fed's style and fh in particular are tailor-made for the older racquets. I really doubt Federer would be befuddled by one of Lendl's old sticks.

Don't get me wrong, I'm one of those who believe Fed's forehand is better then Lendl's. Just wanted to point out that if Fed played with Lendl's old stick with gut strings it would not be as deadly (but still great) as it is in its present form.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by Benhur

I've been watching some tennis from the 90s. I am trying to get a visual impression of court speeds relative to today by comparing baseliners from the 80s, 90s and 00s, which I may report at some point if I arrive at any conclusion.

Reading through this thread, I must say that I find Courier's forehand pretty underrated. It was an awesome and beautiful stroke, more economical than most, no floriture, at least as powerful as Sampras', but much more precise and consistent. Maybe the underrating I observe is due to his relatively short stay at the top. I am referring to his forehand especially when he was a top 3 player in 91-93.

Best forehand by the decades I am most familiar with:

1980s: Lendl, by far
1990s: Courier, by far
2000s: Federer

I would have a hard time choosing between those three, but I could very well choose Courier's today.

Agassi's, Chang's and Sampras' forehands render any "by far" characterizations pretty ridiculous!

[Benhur]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

Agassi's, Chang's and Sampras' forehands render any "by far" characterizations pretty ridiculous!

Yes, well, maybe "by far" is a bit too far. But I do see Courier's forehand as the best of the 90s - while it lasted.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by Benhur

Yes, well, maybe "by far" is a bit too far. But I do see Courier's forehand as the best of the 90s - while it lasted.

I have to give you credit for recognizing what most, who never saw him play, don't, that Courier did have a great forehand. Now here's the acid test, what do you think about Courier's backhand?

[Laurie]

Jim Courier did have a great forehand and it's not talked about as much as it should be perhaps. But what about longevity? Why did Courier's game decline so badly?

Similar thing happened to Roddick in terms of his forehand, it was considered a weapon in the early 2000s and for the last four years or so, everyone says his forehand has no sting, he's tried to put too much spin, he's way too behind the baseline etc.

Courier did an interesting interview in Tennis magazine in 2000 when he retired, I haven't seen it since then but I remember some of it well (including his reluctance to talk about his girlfriends but the media will probe anyway). The interviewer asked him about that and Courier said he heard the theories about it losing its sting because of those matches with Sampras. If you remember, Courier attacked Sampras' backhand constantly and relentlessly with inside out forehands over and over again but Sampras resisted and came out on top in 3 quarters of their matches. I suppose the theory was that Courier lost heart and his form after so many losses in big matches including Roland Garros.

This is an interesting example of what I'm talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9h0OXW479M

[Benhur]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

I have to give you credit for recognizing what most, who never saw him play, don't, that Courier did have a great forehand. Now here's the acid test, what do you think about Courier's backhand?

I think his backhand gets the job done pretty well and I’ve seen him hit great shots with it. I know it has been dismissed as very inferior but I don’t see that, and I don't think he would have become a top player for 3 years if it hadn’t worked well for him, as he had to use it a lot. Then again, having learned tennis relatively late with a one-handed bh from the start, I’ve never been able to understand how two-handed backhands are hit. Can't do it. It feels like trying to play tennis while handcuffed, so I can't comment much on the mechanics of that mysterious shot. The most incomprehensible to me, by far, is Nadal’s backhand. I like Nadal and his game allright, but his backhand looks impossibly cramped and uncomfortable to me.

Sometimes I think of two-handed backhands as a remnant from a childhood necessity. As if a child had never fully made the transition from crawling to walking. Some babies can half-crawl very fast at the age of 12-15 months, in a bouncy and complicated way that reminds me of chimps, and even after they learn how to walk, they sometimes resort back to that kind of crawling for a while if they really want to go fast and safe.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by Benhur

I think his backhand gets the job done pretty well and I’ve seen him hit great shots with it. I know it has been dismissed as very inferior but I don’t see that, and I don't think he would have become a top player for 3 years if it hadn’t worked well for him, as he had to use it a lot. Then again, having learned tennis relatively late with a one-handed bh from the start, I’ve never been able to understand how two-handed backhands are hit. Can't do it. It feels like trying to play tennis while handcuffed, so I can't comment much on the mechanics of that mysterious shot. The most incomprehensible to me, by far, is Nadal’s backhand. I like Nadal and his game allright, but his backhand looks impossibly cramped and uncomfortable to me.

Sometimes I think of two-handed backhands as a remnant from a childhood necessity. As if a child had never fully made the transition from crawling to walking. Some babies can half-crawl very fast at the age of 12-15 months, in a bouncy and complicated way that reminds me of chimps, and even after they learn how to walk, they sometimes resort back to that kind of crawling for a while if they really want to go fast and safe.

A 2hb is basically a left handed forehand (for a righty). If you let your left hand dominate and keep your right hand passive, you'll get the feel for it quickly. In addition, you can't swing from the shoulder with 2 hands on the racquet as you can with 1 hand on the racquet. Without bending your elbows, you can't move your hands more than a few inches from in front of your sternum. You have to swing with upper body rotation.

So, the 2 keys are: (1) left handed forehand, let the right arm be passive, and (2) swing with upper body rotation elbow bend.

Having said that, to me, Courier's backhand looks like a baseball swing with a truncated windup. And, it is very underrated on this forum.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

A 2hb is basically a left handed forehand (for a righty). If you let your left hand dominate and keep your right hand passive, you'll get the feel for it quickly. In addition, you can't swing from the shoulder with 2 hands on the racquet as you can with 1 hand on the racquet. Without bending your elbows, you can't move your hands more than a few inches from in front of your sternum. You have to swing with upper body rotation.

So, the 2 keys are: (1) left handed forehand, let the right arm be passive, and (2) swing with upper body rotation elbow bend.

Having said that, to me, Courier's backhand looks like a baseball swing with a truncated windup. And, it is very underrated on this forum.

I agree, Courier´s FH was one of the best and possibly, the most consistent of the 90´s on slow courts.It is underrated, just as Newcombe´s one in the 1970´s rankings.

[pc1]

I don't know if I provided the link already for this but I figured this would be interesting to look at. This is Allen Fox on Pancho Segura and his description of the Segura forehand in the early 1960's.

http://www.allenfoxtennis.net/pancho...d-personality/

[pc1]

Finally found a bit clip of Segura's forehand.

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=59026

[kiki]

Originally Posted by hoodjem

1. Lendl
2. Borg
3. Nadal
4. Sampras
5. Laver
6. Agassi
7. Courier
8. Cochet
9. Tilden
10. Perry
11. Kramer
12. Santana
13. Johnston
14. Nastase
15. Segura/Federer
16. Vines
17. Newcombe
18. Gonzales
19. Gomez
20. Okker
21. Becker
22. Safin
23. del Potro
24. Blake
25. Budge
26. Muster
27. Moya
28. Wilander
29. Arias
30. Krickstein
31. Berasategui




(Just kidding.)

Where´s Bruguera ? and Forget? and Mancini? quite better FH´s than Arias or Krcikstein, IMO.

[urban]

I am certainly not a fanboy, but Federer's forehand is ranked way too low (as is Segura's).

[kiki]

Pitty nobody has seen Tilden,Cochet,Perry and Jack Kramer because they could be in the upper echelon

[hoodjem]

I found it, finally.