Does Federer at times hit with a Semi Western Grip? (Photo/Video Analysis)

[drakulie]

^^Again, if the racquet is shifting, then explain why his hand is in the same position (pre and post contact).

Also, if this "theory" is true, then it is true for all player, not just Federer.

So why is so hard to find a photo of Federer hitting with a semi-western or western backhand?

Why has no one been able to post a photo of Agassi hitting with a full western forehand.

Sampras with a semi western FH.

etc.
etc,
etc.

[Thiseas]

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[Djokovicfan4life]

Originally Posted by Thiseas

there is no doubt that the racquet shifted in his hand

Really? I have plenty of doubt about that. I agree with Will that it's a terrible angle for grip analysis, but still, most of the movement I see in that picture is the wrist and forearm pronating.

Not sure where Johnny S & V got this "palm turned away from the body" thing on pronation. All it means is that your wrist/forearm turn counterclockwise. For serves, yes, if you have a lot of racquet head speed you'll naturally pronate enough to where the palm is facing away from your body towards the side fence, but there's no rule that says it has to be away from the body. For groundstrokes the racquet is *more or less* square or perpendicular to the ground at contact, so any pronation after contact would turn the palm towards the ground.

Pronation = counterclockwise. Supination = clockwise. Simple.

[Thiseas]

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[wihamilton]

Originally Posted by drakulie

^^Again, if the racquet is shifting, then explain why his hand is in the same position (pre and post contact).

Also, if this "theory" is true, then it is true for all player, not just Federer.

So why is so hard to find a photo of Federer hitting with a semi-western or western backhand?

Why has no one been able to post a photo of Agassi hitting with a full western forehand.

Sampras with a semi western FH.

etc.
etc,
etc.

So you're saying that the racket never shifts in your hand on off-center hits? I think most players @ any level -- simply based on their own experiences -- would disagree w/you if that's what you're saying.

[Thiseas]

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[wihamilton]

Originally Posted by Thiseas

if you freeze the above video at the right moment then you can tell people that richard is using Hawaian in his fh

Good find. Here's the video on Youtube --

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk_eCLU_qnU#t=0m40s

And a non-shanked follow through --

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk_eCLU_qnU#t=0m23s

[Djokovicfan4life]

Originally Posted by Thiseas

look at his hand it is hardly turning, wlile the racquet turns almost 90 degrees

Again, bad angle, but the hand looked like it turned a lot to me as well.

[Thiseas]

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[drakulie]

Originally Posted by Thiseas

http://s134.photobucket.com/albums/q...=Gasquet-1.flv

LOL. Good vid.

However, his racquet doesn't twist, it spins lmao. Very different.

I have shown 3 differerent photos of fed in a semi position, all from 3 different shots. Additionally, contrary to the photo/video I provided, I show his hand up close pre and post contact to show key points in his hand and prove it has not moved, shifted.

1. heel,
2. index knuckle
3. middle knuckle
4. where his index finger is lying (bevel 7)

They have not moved pre and post contact.

Originally Posted by wihamilton

So you're saying that the racket never shifts in your hand on off-center hits? I think most players @ any level -- simply based on their own experiences -- would disagree w/you if that's what you're saying.

Sure it does. There are always times a racquet will move in ones hand, including the racquet flying out of the hand at times completely.

[Djokovicfan4life]

I can't make out his thumb in the contact pic. Must be a jedi mind trick.

[drakulie]

Originally Posted by Thiseas

look at his hand it is hardly turning, wlile the racquet turns almost 90 degrees

LOL. His hand has gone from the palm of his hand facing the net, to it facing the ground.

[wihamilton]

Originally Posted by drakulie

Sure it does. There are always times a racquet will move in ones hand, including the racquet flying out of the hand at times completely.

Cool. So you agree that the racket will sometimes shift in Federer's hand after contact? I understand that you don't think it's shifting in the pics you provided (we'll just have to disagree on that) -- I just mean as a general supposition.

[drakulie]

Originally Posted by wihamilton

I understand that you don't think it's shifting in the pics you provided

why would I ?

His:

1. heel,
2. index knuckle
3. middle knuckle of his index, and
4. where his index finger is lying (bevel 7)

have not shifted pre or post contact. They are in the exact same position.

If his hand has shifted, there would surely be a difference in any one of the aformentioned.

[drakulie]

Originally Posted by wihamilton

Ya I agree -- that's why I think it's so important to get pics that establish someone's grip prior to contact.

If the racquet shifted in his hand in the sequence you are noting and his hand "stayed put", then the palm of his hand would still be facing the net after contact. It's clearly not. It has turned (face down) along with the racquet face, resulting in the palm of his hand and racquet face being in a prone position.

[sennoc]

As long as you talk about kunckles and bevels you are able to describe grips in the simplest strokes only, I'm afraid.

In reality, knuckles and bevels are for beginners, they have no physical meaning. As example, it's easy to change position of a knuckle between two bevels in the same grip (in the grip which has the same physical meaning).

Grips decide about the position of contact point - check it, you will find the answer.

[Slazenger07]

The simple answer is Federer tweaks his grip to deal with various types of balls, for high one's he likely moves his Eastern Grip a bit towards Semi-Western.

I mean the guy is good enough to hit with whatever grip he wants to and be effective, but his standard grip is the Eastern Grip.

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

Originally Posted by Thiseas

there is no doubt that the racquet shifted in his hand

It might look like it from whatever you might be seeing, but i would bet rest assured he has a firm grip and it's not shifting- sliding around after contact, unless you mean something else.

[aimr75]

Originally Posted by Ultra2HolyGrail

but i would bet rest assured he has a firm grip and it's not shifting- sliding around after contact

I would bet his grip is not firm.. i would wager it wouldnt be difficult to pull the racquet from his hand with respect to how firm he holds the handle

[bhupaes]

^^^ Not only that, Federer seems to be hitting consistently below the sweet spot, which adds to the torque that causes the racquet to twist in his hand. For an extreme example, see the forehand around 1:15 or so in this well-viewed video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNPaZj4yn00

The skin on his palm must feel like sandpaper!