Starting Crosses with knot or starting clamp?

[JackB1]

What are the benefits of one method over the other?

I do have a starting clamp, but it seems easier to just tie a knot and go, rather that clamp it and then come back 3,4 strings later and tie it off.

What would be the advantage of using a starting clamp to start the crosses
with?

If you do use a starting clamp, how many do you string before you go back and tie off the first cross? Would you then use just a normal "tie off" knot, like a double half hitch or parnell knot or do u still use a "bulky knot"?

[sstchur]

Originally Posted by JackB1

What are the benefits of one method over the other?

I do have a starting clamp, but it seems easier to just tie a knot and go, rather that clamp it and then come back 3,4 strings later and tie it off.

What would be the advantage of using a starting clamp to start the crosses
with?

If you do use a starting clamp, how many do you string before you go back and tie off the first cross? Would you then use just a normal "tie off" knot, like a double half hitch or parnell knot or do u still use a "bulky knot"?

When tying off, use your favorite tie-off knot, be it double half hitch or parnell or whatever. Bulky would be overkill I think, and defeat (at least one of) the point(s) of using the starting clamp method in the first place.

As for advantages, a local MRT in my area told me that those bulky knots can be pulled into the grommet when you first pull tension which can be somewhat stressful for the frame. He claims (and I don't know the validity of this claim) that in some situations, such stress from a bulky knot can actually create a weak spot in the frame such that just scraping it on the court when going for a low volley could cause it to crack.

Is that true? I don't know. Is it likely even if it is true? Probably not.

I still use this method because I prefer having all the same kind of not, and it does indeed seem to be less stressful for the grommet.

As for how many you do before you go back, I don't know that it matters too much. Three or four or five or whatever floats your boat (but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong on this point, and there is indeed a magic number of crosses you should do.)

[Lakers4Life]

I recently restrung a racket that was purchased from an Online store (not TW), it was strung by the retailer. After removing the old string I noticed the tie-off grommet was pushed in so far that the outside of the head guard buldged out. My only conclusion is that a bulky/starting knot was used and pushed the grommet into the frame.

My only recourse since the grommet was flaired was to tube it and use the other side to tie off. I told my client about the problem and suggested he call the store to send him a new grommet set, which they promptly did. He should of asked for a set of string as well, but maybe that was pushing it.

I personally don't like using a starting knot or a bulky knot just for that same reason I described. I'd rather use a starting clamp, instead.

As for how many crosses before tying off the start, 5 or more is recomended. Sometimes I forget and finish the last cross and tie off before tying off the start.

[jim e]

I also use a starting clamp to start my crosses, so all knots are the same,and you would not be tying off on a main string and pulling tension against it, and when using thin gut or other 'fragile' multifilament strings, and especially at higher tensions, it is not uncommon to snap that first cross string right at the knot or at the two sharp turns the string makes, With using a starting clamp, you do not pull tension against these turns. The USRSA stated at a stringers symposium that they will be updating their recommended procedure, for using the starting clamp use to start crosses.

I get rid of the starting clamp usually right in the beginning.
I clamp the end with the starting clamp outside the frame, then clamp the far end as usual(fixed clamps), then clamp the near end and get rid of the starting clamp and tie off right in the beginning, just so no accidents occur to knock off the starting clamp.(Obviously I wait till a few crosses are placed on racquets that tie off on crosses like the pure storm which is tied to the 3rd cross),I actually see no benefit to waiting till later, but I'm sure its a matter of preference like many other issues. ( Since that beginning cross string is now a tie off I also up the tension like I usually do for tie offs, but thats another issue) .

[Ash_Smith]

Starting clamp. All knots are equal and less pressure on the mains when making the first pull (much as the others have said).

[schap02]

I string a variety of racquets for clients - some outdated and older frames that it's either impossible to find grommets or way way too expensive to replace existing grommet sets....that being said I have found that usins a starting clamp increases the life of the upper grommets where a tie off knot would usualy be placed. I think it's entirely up to the stringer when to remove the starting clamp, for me it usually depends on the frame and how quickly I am weaving crosses, usually the 5th or 6th cross for me is when I remove the starting clamp, on my own racquets I string the entire frame before removing the starting clamp and tying off just because my frames are 18x20 and I usually get in such a groove weaving that I don't want to stop...but for customers frames it's usually the 5th or 6th cross.

Just my opinion here...

[JackB1]

great answers guys....I now see the benefits of using the starting clamp instead of the bulky knot.

In watching Yulittle video on this, he does 5 crosses and makes a point of showing that you want to have 1 flying clamp in the diagnolly opposite spot of the starting clamp, before you remove the starting clamp and tie off.
After you tension the starting cross, you take off the starting clamp and then move that diagonal flying clamp to clamp it just inside the frame of that first cross and then you tie your knot.

Only reason I could see for using the "bulky knot" method would be that you think you might come up short on string length and you want to use as little string as possible.

[Marc C.]

Starting knots are ugly and don't always hold up to the first pull. Make your string job look like that of a professional by using a starting clamp and tying your regular knot.

As for when to go back to remove the clamp and tie off. My former boss and stringing mentor would always finish weaving the crosses before he would go back and tie off. I always find this risky as the string can get caught around the clamp and pull it off if you are not careful.

A quick tip on using the starting clamp. If you want it to have incredible grip on the string (without causing damage) and no slippage: Just cut a piece of sand paper and fold it over the string right where you will be placing the starting clamp and the string won't move at all.

[Lambsscroll]

A knot and go if your stringing for yourself. If your tension is really really high and the knot breaks then use a starting clamp next time.

[Ash_Smith]

Originally Posted by Marc C.

As for when to go back to remove the clamp and tie off. My former boss and stringing mentor would always finish weaving the crosses before he would go back and tie off. I always find this risky as the string can get caught around the clamp and pull it off if you are not careful.

With a neos or similar this is more or less your only option as you only have one glidebar on the table for crosses, unless you have a couple of starting clamps or a spare flying clamp you'll have to go to the finish before coming back to tie off

[Sweet-Spot]

Thanks guys. I couldn't figure out what would be the benefits as blindingly obvious as I have laways used a starting know but these arguments make logical sense.

I also was watching the pro stringing rooms at a tournament and they all use starting clamps for the crosses. So from here on in.... I'm converted.

[mikeler]

I string for myself and either way works. I bought a starting clamp a few years ago. After that, I never went back to a bulky knot. Yes they both work, but it seems like a cleaner string job with a smaller knot everywhere. So I go 5 strings and then clamp at the top cross. Then I just tie my normal tie-off knot and I'm done.

[ricardo]

I use starting clamp to start crosses in the middle of the racket head.

I do hybrid stringing:
Mains = Natural gut
Crosses = Multi/Synthetic.

I string the crosses this way because of the following benefits:

1. Reduce string friction while weaving
2. Faster weaving because you are only weaving 10 ft instead of 20 ft.

[uk_skippy]

Originally Posted by Ash_Smith

Starting clamp. All knots are equal and less pressure on the mains when making the first pull (much as the others have said).

Agreed, Same here.

Originally Posted by JackB1

Only reason I could see for using the "bulky knot" method would be that you think you might come up short on string length and you want to use as little string as possible.

You don't need too much string for a Pro knot. If you have enough string just to reach the tension head, you'll have plenty for a pro knot.

Originally Posted by Marc C.

As for when to go back to remove the clamp and tie off. My former boss and stringing mentor would always finish weaving the crosses before he would go back and tie off. I always find this risky as the string can get caught around the clamp and pull it off if you are not careful.

The top cross is the last tie-off I do as I leave the clamp on until I've finished the crosses. You can always loop the tail within itself and the place within the handle of the clamp. It's tidy and out the way.

Regards

Paul

[Sweet-Spot]

Originally Posted by uk_skippy

Agreed, Same here.





The top cross is the last tie-off I do as I leave the clamp on until I've finished the crosses. You can always loop the tail within itself and the place within the handle of the clamp. It's tidy and out the way.

Regards

Paul

Hi Paul
Is this just a personal preference or is there a reason for this as opposed to tieing it off after 5 or so mains?

I'm trying to modify my stringing habits based on best practise and scientific reasons behind certain things.

I have alot of bad habits

[ced]

Originally Posted by ricardo

I use starting clamp to start crosses in the middle of the racket head.

I do hybrid stringing:
Mains = Natural gut
Crosses = Multi/Synthetic.

I string the crosses this way because of the following benefits:

1. Reduce string friction while weaving
2. Faster weaving because you are only weaving 10 ft instead of 20 ft.

Do you go from the center up and tie, then the bottom down and tie , or do you alternate top and bottom strings 1 ahead (as most people do mains) ? Also how many pulls on your two center strings ?

[ricardo]

Originally Posted by ced

Do you go from the center up and tie, then the bottom down and tie , or do you alternate top and bottom strings 1 ahead (as most people do mains) ? Also how many pulls on your two center strings ?

I do it in the following sequence.
1. From the center I go up and tie.
2. From the center I go down and tie.

Two center strings
I clamp the two center strings using a floating clamp.
I pull the bottom center string and hold it outside the edge of the racket with a starting clamp. I then pull and weave the top center string all the way to the top and tie-off. I then pull the bottom center string and remove the starting clamp and continue pulling and weaving to the bottom and then tie off.

[tball]

I've split quite a few grommets using the starting knot. Since I switched to clamp & regular knot, I have not had that problem ever again.

[Roger Wawrinka]

I like using a starting clamp, then tying a pro knot. A good thing about the starting clamp technique vs. the starting knot is that unlike starting knots, the starting clamp method does not mushroom the grommet hole.

[zapvor]

i tend to use the starting knot. havent really had issues.