Again With The Footfaulting?

[pmerk34]

Originally Posted by OrangePower

Certainly not everyone foot faults. On the other hand at the recreational level many people do foot fault, at least fairly often if not always.

In most cases (90%), recreational footfaulters don't get any advantage from it. Maybe there is a small percent of players that footfault so flagrantly that they get some advantage out of it.

I think that's why the USTA footfaulting rule is the way it is - to try eliminate unfair advantage while letting the less significant footfaulting 'slide'.

Personally I think I rule is a rule, and should be enforced if possible. The problem is that there really isn't anyone on the court that is well positioned to make accurate footfaulting calls. The server can't do it. The server's partner isn't looking at the server. And the opponents are far away and have a really bad angle for making a footfaulting call.

So the current rule is not perfect, but I can't really think of any better alternative short of having a third-party always available to make the call, and that's just not feasible.

Bottom line: Most players are reasonable and are trying to play fair, and it's not an issue. There will be the odd cases where someone is being a jerk, cheating, or engaging in gamesmanship. Same goes for line calls, lets, and many other aspects of the game. Just deal with it as a minor annoyance which is more than offset by the majority of fair and fun players out there, and move on.

Not according to some here who call people who foot fault "cheaters".

[Ripper014]

Originally Posted by pmerk34

Well I Wouldn't say EVERYONE foot faults but your point is taken. Anyone who tries to claim points off this must be crazy

Well... I would like to think they would warn you before claiming points, and if there was doubt about the foot faults in question have a third party make future calls. If that is not possible then you would have to live with the opponents call like any line call you might not agree with.

[pmerk34]

Originally Posted by Ripper014

Well... I would like to think they would warn you before claiming points, and if there was doubt about the foot faults in question have a third party make future calls. If that is not possible then you would have to live with the opponents call like any line call you might not agree with.

I've never heard or seen any match where an opponent could a) call foot faults and b) take serves away and with it a point on a second serve call. That's why the USTA has the rules as they are. I couldn't imagine anyone going to play a USTA match after he/she gets off work and allow the opponent to yell "FOOT FAULT" at them an entire match LOL.

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by hfmf

EVERYONE foot faults.


I've said it before, if my opponent tried to call a foot fault on me during a match and claim any point, there would be hell to pay.

That's a ridiculous statement, you're projecting. I've never heard of anyone calling a foot fault when it didn't actually occur.

If someone called a foot fault on you, you should thank them for informing you or your negligence.

What kind of hell would you make your opponent pay? What if it were a roving-referee at a tournament--what kind of hell would you make them pay?

[Ripper014]

Originally Posted by pmerk34

I've never heard or seen any match where an opponent could a) call foot faults and b) take serves away and with it a point on a second serve call. That's why the USTA has the rules as they are. I couldn't imagine anyone going to play a USTA match after he/she gets off work and allow the opponent to yell "FOOT FAULT" at them an entire match LOL.

Isn't that what this whole thread is about..?

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by pmerk34

It's obvious (to me anyway) by watching and participating in club level tennis and by the USTA rules that foot faulting occurs all the time. The important part is that almost no one is doing it on purpose to gain an advantage.

Agreed, it is just negligent behavior and not mayhem. Those who think it's just a technical violation and are resentful if called on it, would probably feel alright if someone parked a few inches into their driveway preventing them from exiting and making it to their league match.

They would probably go back in their house and stay home that day and not do or say anything about it--since parking "just" a few inches into someone's driveway is a technical violation and surely wouldn't inconvenience anyone and surely wouldn't result in their being towed away and fined.

[r2473]

Originally Posted by tennis tom

Agreed, it is just negligent behavior and not mayhem. Those who think it's just a technical violation and are resentful if called on it, would probably feel alright if someone parked a few inches into their driveway preventing them from exiting and making it to their league match.

They would probably go back in their house and stay home that day and not do or say anything about it--since parking "just" a few inches into someone's driveway is a technical violation and surely wouldn't inconvenience anyone and surely wouldn't result in their being towed away and fined.

OK, but what if the guy you were playing in a tournament the week before and you called for a footfault parked in your driveway the next week preventing you from making your match this week AND he said "NEE-NER-NEE-NER"?

I think in this case the USTA would mandate that you sleep with his wife if I read the rules correctly.

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by r2473

I think in this case the USTA would mandate that you sleep with his wife if I read the rules correctly.

Sure, if she was cute.

[r2473]

Originally Posted by tennis tom

Sure, if she was cute.

Nope, no exceptions.

In fact I know this guy who purposely footfaults every week, then................

[workhurts]

I was playing mixed doubles in 3.5 league about 8 years ago and the guy receving the ball called me on it.

At the time I didn't think I was foot-faulting but did know that I had a tendency to move my left foot 2-3" slightly before making contact with the ball. I'd stand an extra 2-3" from the line just in case.

I recall taking exception to the call because how on earth is someone standing that far away that is supposed to be watching the ball toss going to know whether or not I was foot faulting. I actually did tell them that if the net person were calling it that I'd take it more seriously.

I always end up about a foot into the court but never go to net and I'm under 6' so it's not it's an advantage in any way shape or form.

I still don't think I was footfaulting at the time but it did make me look at my serve and gradually I've made it so that my left foot stays much more planted and that I don't have to stand that extra 2-3" behind the line. Planting my foot has also helped with getting a little more power into the serve and generally staying a bit more balanaced at ball contact.

I've recorded myself serving and have never (even then) found myself to footfault but I suppose that could have been due to actually concentrating on not doing it.

Yes, every rule should be followed but I do hope that people remember that this is a game and the majority of us are in fact not very good at it. I'm more concerned about opponents giving me the benefit of the doubt when they are making a line call from 30 feet away then I am with them foot faulting.

Regardless of whether you think you are right or wrong, if you **** them off then some of those close calls will not go your way. Pick your battles.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by pmerk34

Not according to some here who call people who foot fault "cheaters".

If you always look for evil in others, that is what you will find.

Look within yourself and root out the evil there.

[Ripper014]

Originally Posted by pmerk34

Not according to some here who call people who foot fault "cheaters".

I don't know how to respond to this statement. What would you call someone that is not playing within the rules? I understand it is not intentional... but does the police officer care if you didn't realize you were doing 50 in a 35 zone?

Don't get me wrong I have never called someone on a footfault though during my time I should have many times. I just felt even with that advantage I was going to beat them anyway.

My problem is that there are those... (and obviously a few posting here), feel that if you do call them on a foot fault that they are hard done by. That the person calling the infraction is the person in the wrong... (how dare they call me on a foot fault, I don't foot fault).

If you are a foot faulter, fix it... if your opponent calls you on it, make an adjustment, the line is there for a reason. If you cross the line on a bowling alley and the buzzer went off I don't think you would be trying to argue the point. There is a lot of room behind the service line to setup... so there shouldn't be an issue.

[tennis tom]

Ripper agree with what you say. Most foot faulting is not deliberate cheating it is just negligent behavior.. The key factor to me is the statement the player makes about his character when confronted with their errant behavior. Do they get defensive, combative, choke, fall apart?--or do they go forward and fix it?

[OrangePower]

Originally Posted by tennis tom

Ripper agree with what you say. Most foot faulting is not deliberate cheating it is just negligent behavior.. The key factor to me is the statement the player makes about his character when confronted with their errant behavior. Do they get defensive, combative, choke, fall apart?--or do they go forward and fix it?

I completely agree. Foot faulting is against the rules, but is not (usually) an attempt to cheat and gain unfair advantage. And when confronted with evidence of foot faulting, an honest player will accept it, and either fix it or accept the penalty.

But the problem is in providing the evidence. For example, if there is a line judge present and he/she calls a footfault, this should be accepted completely (unless your name is Serena). But when the footfault is being called by opponents on the other side of the net, it is much harder to accept, not because of doubting their sincerity, but because they are not in position to really see it:

1. They are typically concentrating on the ball / service motion, not the server's feet.

2. They are looking across the baseline from a distance, rather than down it.

3. They can't judge from there whether the server's feet are perhaps an inch off the ground versus actually touching the ground

Unless of course it is flagrant. Which is where all the argument comes in

[Ripper014]

Originally Posted by OrangePower

I completely agree. Foot faulting is against the rules, but is not (usually) an attempt to cheat and gain unfair advantage. And when confronted with evidence of foot faulting, an honest player will accept it, and either fix it or accept the penalty.

But the problem is in providing the evidence. For example, if there is a line judge present and he/she calls a footfault, this should be accepted completely (unless your name is Serena). But when the footfault is being called by opponents on the other side of the net, it is much harder to accept, not because of doubting their sincerity, but because they are not in position to really see it:

1. They are typically concentrating on the ball / service motion, not the server's feet.

2. They are looking across the baseline from a distance, rather than down it.

3. They can't judge from there whether the server's feet are perhaps an inch off the ground versus actually touching the ground

Unless of course it is flagrant. Which is where all the argument comes in

Agreed... but they are in a better position to see it than the server. And I would suggest in a doubles match the receivers partner has a very clear view.

But I would offer... that like line calls you have to give your opponent the benefit of the doubt. Make an adjustment and move on.

[OrangePower]

Originally Posted by Ripper014

Agreed... but they are in a better position to see it than the server. And I would suggest in a doubles match the receivers partner has a very clear view.

But I would offer... that like line calls you have to give your opponent the benefit of the doubt. Make an adjustment and move on.

Absolutely!

This is somewhat an academic discussion, since in 5 years of league and tournament play I've never once had a footfault called on me, nor have I called a footfault on anyone else, nor have I witnessed any other footfault calls made by/against team-mates.

But apparently some people's tennis lives are much more dramatic and exciting than mine

[Ripper014]

Originally Posted by OrangePower

Absolutely!

This is somewhat an academic discussion, since in 5 years of league and tournament play I've never once had a footfault called on me, nor have I called a footfault on anyone else, nor have I witnessed any other footfault calls made by/against team-mates.

But apparently some people's tennis lives are much more dramatic and exciting than mine

I hear you... but I have the awful personal fault to have at least a few people agree with me before I can let an issue go.

[hfmf]

Honestly, I've only had the one guy (story above) question my foot placement on the serve. It hasn't really come into play in any of my USTA matches or even competitive tournament play.

The only reason I'm sticking to my guns on this and being so bull-headed about this is that before our USTA district matches, the 3.0 teams were playing and there was one match where, even though the roaming officials were walking around, an opponent called a foot fault on his opponent for a game's worth of points. Because these people were so new to the game, nobody questioned it, but our 3.5 team (all of whom got moved up to 4.0 the next year) were there with our mouths wide open at the line caller's arrogance. We didn't want to say anything, but the attitude of entitlement by the caller was ridiculous.

I say, unless a foot fault blatantly helps the server's game out, play the point and try to win it fair and square. To win on technicalities is bush league and I am VERY dead set against it. Play the game, not the rules of the game.

[equinox]

tennis has foot judges for reason. because of opposition bias and angle distance is to far to call an correct 100%.

Get an official. Come finals chronic and flagrant footfaulters will be caught out big time.

[r2473]

Originally Posted by hfmf

Play the game, not the rules of the game.

I think you are missing the point.

While I would never call a footfault on an opponent, I realize that an opponent is well within the rules to call (or caution me for) a footfault.

When you take the court, you (implicitly) agree to play by the rules. Perhaps you (wisely) overlook certain rules, but that does not mean that your opponent is required to do the same.

If he makes this call, you have to deal with it in one way or another. Easiest way (in my opinion) is to back a few inches off the baseline, apologize, and continue play.