Make up calls

[coloskier]

In a tournament semi-final, I had a guy hook me twice on break points. In the next game, he hit the ball in the center of the court 4 times in a row and I called every one of them out. And then I said we can keep doing this all day, but the next time you better call it in if it is within 3 inches of the line or I'll take an entire set from you. I won the last set 6-0 because he lost it. He knew that he couldn't hook anymore and knew it was the only way he could win. Later in the year he was banned for a year from USTA tournaments because someone else complained and a USTA official watched him do it repeatedly. From my experience they will continue to do it until they can't get away with it any more, and only you can stop them.

[kylebarendrick]

Originally Posted by Ripper014

It probably was out... but they could not make a 100% determination... if you clearly see the ball out of play... you have the option to correct your opponent and give them the point. You are not obligated... but you have the option... and I think how you handle this says a lot about you as a person.

Per the code:

13. Player calls own shots out. With the exception of the first serve, a
player should call against himself or herself any ball the player clearly sees
out regardless of whether requested to do so by the opponent. The prime
objective in making calls is accuracy. All players should cooperate to attain
this objective.

Based on that, I'd say that it is more than an option - if you clearly see your ball land out then you should say so.

[Ripper014]

Originally Posted by kylebarendrick

Per the code:
Based on that, I'd say that it is more than an option - if you clearly see your ball land out then you should say so.

Well I agree with this, but it is clear that many on this board do not follow these principles, but at what point do you define seeing it clearly out? ie... as stated earlier someone was sure a ball was out... but their opponent insists it hit the line. A discussion that took place during a court change. In my case I would have addressed it immediately... "are you sure the ball looked out", and then abide by my opponents final call.

My point is that in many occasions we are in a better position to see the line calls than our opponents, be it a sideline, a baseline or a serviceline. But the bottomline is that the final decision I have always felt belonged to my opponent, I will provide my input if I feel the ball is out... but I leave it up to them if they want to accept the point.

[kylebarendrick]

I agree - the person responsible for making the call has the final say. My only responsibility is to let them know that I clearly saw my ball land out.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by Ripper014

Well I agree with this, but it is clear that many on this board do not follow these principles, but at what point do you define seeing it clearly out? ie... as stated earlier someone was sure a ball was out... but their opponent insists it hit the line. A discussion that took place during a court change. In my case I would have addressed it immediately... "are you sure the ball looked out", and then abide by my opponents final call.

You know, if I did this ("Are you sure, the ball looked out") every time I thought my ball was out I think my opponents would tire of it very quickly.

There are many, many occasions where I hit a ball and think it is going out or even see it out. I will often say something to my partner like, "Wow, was that really in?" Many partners, teammates and pros have scolded me for this, so I try not to do it. My partners have a point: My opponent calling a line far away from me is tasked with making that call because they are closer to it and are watching it because they know they are supposed to.

Now, I just play to their call unless the ball is obviously out. Funny thing, though. When the ball is obviously out, my opponents are quite diligent about calling it out with gusto.

[Ripper014]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

You know, if I did this ("Are you sure, the ball looked out") every time I thought my ball was out I think my opponents would tire of it very quickly.

There are many, many occasions where I hit a ball and think it is going out or even see it out. I will often say something to my partner like, "Wow, was that really in?" Many partners, teammates and pros have scolded me for this, so I try not to do it. My partners have a point: My opponent calling a line far away from me is tasked with making that call because they are closer to it and are watching it because they know they are supposed to.

Now, I just play to their call unless the ball is obviously out. Funny thing, though. When the ball is obviously out, my opponents are quite diligent about calling it out with gusto.

Not to question your honesty but I find it interesting that balls that look out to you... you do not question. Yet in another thread you started "Changed Call: Let Or Loss Of Point?", where you may have bullied your opponent into changing her call.

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

I was playing a match last night that went to a 10-point tiebreak. We were down 7-9 with opponent serving to my partner.

Partner returns the ball from the deuce court high and sharply crosscourt with enough angle that the side curtains are making life difficult for the deep opponent. Ball bounces inside the doubles sideline. I was at net and shifted over to cover my alley. Opponent barely gets to the ball and gets it back deep.

And that's when I heard it: "Out!"

Opposing net player had called my partner's ball out when it was obviously in. She had a bad angle and was calling a ball while looking across a line, obviously, which is what caused her error. I am sure of this because I was looking down the line.

I walked up and said something like, "Are you calling that out? Seriously? On match point?"

Opponent said, "Hold on, hold on." She asked her partner, who said she didn't see it. There was some further discussion -- can't remember details. Then the opponent said, "Cindy, since you're sure the ball was in, you can have the point."

I said, "I appreciate that. But since your partner put the ball back in play and you're changing your out call to good, I think we should replay the point. That seems fair."

As I sit here, I am not sure I was correct. Maybe it was our point? I've never fully understood when you play a let when a player changes an out call to good and when it is loss of point. I know that when an official overrules a player's call in an officiated match, it is always loss of point, but how does this work when there is no official?

Regardless, I feel OK about not taking the point. I went way past "Are you sure?" in challenging her call, and I have to give this opponent credit for being willing to accept loss of point at such a critical time in the match. I also think it laudable that she didn't just say, "I saw it out" and stick her hand over the net to shake hands.

How should this have been handled?

Do you feel there is some inconsistancy in the way you handle line calls? Since when you feel it is OUTyou stay quiet, yet if you feel it is IN you challenge your opponents calls?

Do not get me wrong you have every right to do this... but to me it seems to lack a little consistancy... If you are going to accept your opponents calls... then accept them all not only when it gives you the point.

And like I have said before... when is OUT obviously OUT, for me if I see a space between the ball and the line... to me that is OUT.

[Cindysphinx]

No, I don't feel there is any inconsistency in how I handle calls. I don't see any merit in your argument. It is patently silly to say you have to accept all of your opponents' calls or none of them.

[Ripper014]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

No, I don't feel there is any inconsistency in how I handle calls. I don't see any merit in your argument. It is patently silly to say you have to accept all of your opponents' calls or none of them.

My point is that you admittedly accepted shots that would favour you (ones you believe were OUT but were called IN)... and then question those that do not (ones you saw as IN but were called OUT).

I am sure many people would feel this would make a person a scrappy player fighting for every point, but for me it just seems inconsistant. Maybe I have an over sensitive feel of fair play... if I trust my opponent to call a ball as being IN I should trust them to make an OUT call as well. And that they would make the same call whether it was the first point in a match or the last. Naive for sure... but this is the premise I bring to every match...

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by Ripper014

My point is that you admittedly accepted shots that would favour you (ones you believe were OUT but were called IN)... and then question those that do not (ones you saw as IN but were called OUT).

You seem to be ignoring the fact that most clearly out balls are called out by my opponents, often with gusto and a high five.

You also seem to be ignoring the fact that many balls will be close calls, and on those I accept my opponent's call either way because they are in better position and it is their call to make.

You also seem to be ignoring the fact that, in rare situations, my opponent will be in horrible position when I am in good position (and her partner didn't see the ball). In that situation, I feel morally correct in questioning the out call and The Code backs me up on that.

[Ripper014]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

You seem to be ignoring the fact that most clearly out balls are called out by my opponents, often with gusto and a high five.

I must play a different game... I don't cheer or celebrate after an opponent makes an error... it must be an american thing. I rarely cheer when I make a good shot.

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

You also seem to be ignoring the fact that many balls will be close calls, and on those I accept my opponent's call either way because they are in better position and it is their call to make.

It is always their call to make....

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

You also seem to be ignoring the fact that, in rare situations, my opponent will be in horrible position when I am in good position (and her partner didn't see the ball). In that situation, I feel morally correct in questioning the out call and The Code backs me up on that.

It is always their call to make... and hopefully if they didn't honestly see the ball as being OUT they would not make the call. As for the CODE... well you know what I think of that... in the end... it is still your opponents call to make.

Am I driving you crazy yet...???