Kinetic chain in Rafa and Fed's FH

[forehandshanker]

I've been skimming through videos at

http://www.youtube.com/user/FYB2007

I've been wondering about how the fundamentals of how to get the most out of the kinetic chain into reverse FH. BTW, I do not buy the notion that the reverse FH is for wannabees and not for club level players. Sometimes a reverse FH is appropriate as a defensive shot or when you want more spin/net clearance, because that's the best option given the ball you're trying to play. It seems to me that how someone uses the kinetic chain is more or less the same whether you hit reverse or windshield wiper FH.

When I see Rafa hit a reverse FH in an open stance, he really loads up on his back leg, starts the kinetic chain by leading with his hips, and then the swing follows through with the famous helicopter finish. Interestingly enough, when he hits his windshield wiper FH, he loads up his weight the same. His follow through is, of course, across his body.

When I see Fed hit a reverse FH, he loads up on his back leg too (but not nearly to the extent of Rafa). But the load seems to be for the sake of his leg pushing up on the shot rather than leading with the hips. Sometimes he'll pivot around his back foot when he needs a little bit extra juice. For his WW FH, he doesn't lead with his hips so much. He seems to use his kinetic chain to push up with his legs. Fed's FH looks more relaxed. That may be a function of his more laid-back practice habits as well as his Eastern FH grip (easier to hit through the ball).

(BTW, both guys tend to hit a WW more often than the reverse).

Does anyone else see the same things? If so, I'm wondering why Fed and Rafa use their kinetic chain (ever so slightly) different. BTW, I find both approaches useful in their own ways.

[LeeD]

Roger and Nadal are different.
Roger is flowing smooth.
Rafa is stronger, more muscle, tends to use it.
You are neither, me too. I tend to arm reverse finishes, no legs, because I use it for purely defensive swings on faster than expected balls.

[forehandshanker]

1st principle of kinetic chain: getting your hips & shoulder into the ball >>> Arming the ball.

If any of us can learn to use our legs more even on purely defensive swings for faster than expected balls, that's an improvement, right? I'll allow for exceptions when the ball skids off the line, but that's a tiny percentage of defensive balls.

[LeeD]

Seems to me....
If I have time to fully turn and use my legs, the ball is not unexpectedly fast or deep?
Those unexpectly fast or deep shots need to be stroked quicker, so arm and shoulders only. And since they're incoming deep and fast, less need for us to CREATE pace.

[supineAnimation]

I use this shot mostly when the lateral direction in which my body is moving (on the run) produces a force too great to be able to hit through (towards target) the ball well enough. I can't throw my racquet through the ball enough when my entire body is moving in a perpendicular direction. But I can get a lot of force by throwing my arm and racquet more upward and less forward because the direction of that throw is roughly in-line with the direction of force of my body moving laterally on the run. So you compensate for the reduction in force you can produce towards your target with the force you can get swinging upward.

And then I also use this shot a lot when I have I to hit the ball farther back in my stance.