State Championships Question..

tony_ace · 06-02-2010, 01:07 PM

Okay okay I'm sure this has been asked before, but I just couldn't find the answer anywhere. So our team has advanced to the State Championships for July (in NC). We have enough players committed but I just want to know what are the rules for defaulting? They have made it very clear (almost in a threatening sense) that we would get fined $100 per defaulted match. What if someone gets into an accident on the way? What about injuries? Injuries before or during a match? I assume there must be "excusable" defaults. Does anyone know the details on this?

And how in the heck do they enforce this? Fine the no-show player? Fine the team? captain? They say it's cumulative. So say we have 1 or 2 injured players after the first match and there are 5 matches left.. That's $500!

I honestly think this is a scare tactic. And I understand since they really don't have any other way to "enforce" this.. But I'm not coughing up $100 b/c someone else slept late.

Kostas · 06-02-2010, 01:38 PM

In MS you (the captain) have to submit a security deposit check in advance in order to compete at the state championships. A full default of a match (not just a court) warrants forfeiture of your deposit.

It's not a scare tactic it's a legit fine for not getting your team organized enough to compete at the state level.

tony_ace · 06-02-2010, 02:00 PM

Gotcha. NC States page says all the team members are banned from league play until fine is paid in full. Has anyone actually experienced this? I mean say ur 3 days into the championships and someone blows their knee out and must default a court.. they fine for that??? $100 is a little steep. Heck, the entry fee is only $30-40 I believe.

Kostas · 06-02-2010, 02:05 PM

I believe the fine is so steep because state tournaments are a big deal for most of the teams and players and they don't want teams that are "out of the running" packing up and heading home when other teams still want to play tennis that they paid for and earned.

State is typically an expensive weekend for those players that qualify between tourney fees, hotel, food etc you usually spend a couple hundred dollars for the weekend and I would be ****ed if team X lost their first 4 matches and decided to head home and we didn't get to play our last match because of it.

I wouldn't look at the fine as anything sinister or unreasonable, just take your team, go compete and do your best.

JLyon · 06-02-2010, 05:33 PM

Typically the fine is if there is a full team default, meaning you have fewer than 5 players ready to go, there has to be at least 3 lines playing. The fine is put in place so teams that are already out of contention do not just pack up and go home.

86golf · 06-02-2010, 06:42 PM

Two years ago, my team defaulted line 2 singles in Pinehurst, NC the final day. I was told that an automatic grievance would be filed against me (captain) and the case would be discussed with the officials in Greensboro subject to a fine. I went through the process after the match on site and I haven't heard from them since...

tony_ace · 06-02-2010, 07:34 PM

From what I understand this $100 fine per match rule started 2 years ago because teams tended to not show during matches they new would lose or on the last days that had no chance to win. If you ask me, who gives a flying ****. If everyone is so competitive at this point then honestly why would anyone ***** because they won? Default or not. Quit being a baby. Go home early and have a beer. And if you're the winning team? Congrats! Your advancing!

I'm assuming the TD and USTA won't end up going crazy and slap $100 fines here and there on every default. That would stop any team from wanting to participate probably. Grievance I can understand. But $100 a match!? Please..

BustedString · 06-03-2010, 10:31 AM

In our District if you know you are going to be short of players, you can request a waiver which have often been granted. Once you get to Sectionals, though, they are usually denied. We had a team default #3 dubs to us at Sectionals last fall and they were indeed fined $100 PLUS the remaining courts started out up 1-0 and with the loss of toss. I was in the #3 dubs slot and was a bit ticked off so I threw my bag down in disgust, rupturing two Gatorade bottles inside that got all over my junk. Lesson learned!

JLyon · 06-03-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montognese

In our District if you know you are going to be short of players, you can request a waiver which have often been granted. Once you get to Sectionals, though, they are usually denied. We had a team default #3 dubs to us at Sectionals last fall and they were indeed fined $100 PLUS the remaining courts started out up 1-0 and with the loss of toss. I was in the #3 dubs slot and was a bit ticked off so I threw my bag down in disgust, rupturing two Gatorade bottles inside that got all over my junk. Lesson learned!

I am not sure why Districts/States need to be such a-holes about this stuff, it is not the end of the world if one line is defaulted due to an emergency or injury, much less penalize the entire team with a late penalty (one game and toss), that is overkill and it is a wonder many players tire of playing under the USTA gestapo.

tony_ace · 07-11-2010, 07:13 PM

I took your advice. We had the bare minimum of 8 players. No one extra, or standby. Just 8 players for the entire weekend.. Surprisingly we didn't have to default any of our courts during the 6 matches...

And more surprisingly, we won the States!!

JavierLW · 07-12-2010, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony_ace

If you ask me, who gives a flying ****. If everyone is so competitive at this point then honestly why would anyone ***** because they won?

Because actually being able to play the matches is more important then winning? You havent figured that out yet?

Sure injurys can happen but you have to have enough people on your roster to accommodate that.

The people who just dont want to play the remaining matches because they cant win are LOSERS. Which unfortunately is probably common in the cases where the team probably sandbagged their way to get there in the first place.

Matt H. · 07-12-2010, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLyon

I am not sure why Districts/States need to be such a-holes about this stuff, it is not the end of the world if one line is defaulted due to an emergency or injury, much less penalize the entire team with a late penalty (one game and toss), that is overkill and it is a wonder many players tire of playing under the USTA gestapo.

How would you feel if you burned PTO from your job, paid for hotel/gas/food, and then show up to find out you’re not playing?

Topaz · 07-12-2010, 06:07 AM

It sounds like you guys are lumping all defaults into one.

There is a difference between defaulting because you got injured, defaulting because you don't have enough players, and defaulting because you have been mathematically disqualified from winning and you gave up so you can go home early. Last two will get you in hot water...first one won't.

polski · 07-12-2010, 08:47 AM

I ws in the #2 singles line at states two years ago & our opponent in the last match only showed up with 7 players & defaulted to me. I was highly irritated that I had paid a hotel night & meals to show up & not get to play. Both teams in this situation were already eliminated so the match meant nothing. I'm glad the USTA is doing something to prevent this from happening to others.

JavierLW · 07-12-2010, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topaz

It sounds like you guys are lumping all defaults into one.

There is a difference between defaulting because you got injured, defaulting because you don't have enough players, and defaulting because you have been mathematically disqualified from winning and you gave up so you can go home early. Last two will get you in hot water...first one won't.

If you get injured during the match you retire, you dont default.

Unless you get injured in the warmup or the drive there or something.... (at some point if it was early enough either you should of notified the captain or they should of done something about it)

Also people that have been sick or hurt all week long and wait until the day of the match to tell you about it are somewhat suspect as being good or bad.

My good players let me know ahead of time so I can at least think about a backup plan. The bad player selfishly wants that last second chance at playing so they dont say anything until it's way too late.

There is also a rare default where you just quit the match because you are mad. (if you quit and are not hurt or tired, technically that's a default and it's a 6-0, 6-0 score, but nobody probably puts it in that way). That one is bad as well.

I was on a 3.0 team where a guy on it did that once because he thought his opponent was cheating, and he left the match and we never saw him again. (good riddance)

Topaz · 07-12-2010, 01:40 PM

Was more referring to someone getting injured in the previous match and then not being able to play in the next one. Sometimes people go with just barely enough to field a match, through nobody's fault. If someone goes down, then they are short and have to default.

06-02-2010, 01:07 PM	#1
tony_ace New User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Norf Kakalaki Posts: 71	State Championships Question.. Okay okay I'm sure this has been asked before, but I just couldn't find the answer anywhere. So our team has advanced to the State Championships for July (in NC). We have enough players committed but I just want to know what are the rules for defaulting? They have made it very clear (almost in a threatening sense) that we would get fined $100 per defaulted match. What if someone gets into an accident on the way? What about injuries? Injuries before or during a match? I assume there must be "excusable" defaults. Does anyone know the details on this? And how in the heck do they enforce this? Fine the no-show player? Fine the team? captain? They say it's cumulative. So say we have 1 or 2 injured players after the first match and there are 5 matches left.. That's $500! I honestly think this is a scare tactic. And I understand since they really don't have any other way to "enforce" this.. But I'm not coughing up $100 b/c someone else slept late.

06-02-2010, 05:33 PM	#5
JLyon Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: AR Posts: 2,294	Typically the fine is if there is a full team default, meaning you have fewer than 5 players ready to go, there has to be at least 3 lines playing. The fine is put in place so teams that are already out of contention do not just pack up and go home. __________________ Dunlop Bio 300 48/53 lbs. A cruel joke by USTA putting my 4.0 butt at 5.0 for future butt kickings

07-11-2010, 07:13 PM	#10
tony_ace New User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Norf Kakalaki Posts: 71	Thanks I took your advice. We had the bare minimum of 8 players. No one extra, or standby. Just 8 players for the entire weekend.. Surprisingly we didn't have to default any of our courts during the 6 matches... And more surprisingly, we won the States!!

07-12-2010, 06:07 AM	#13
Topaz Legend Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,648	It sounds like you guys are lumping all defaults into one. There is a difference between defaulting because you got injured, defaulting because you don't have enough players, and defaulting because you have been mathematically disqualified from winning and you gave up so you can go home early. Last two will get you in hot water...first one won't. __________________ What would you do if you knew you could not fail?

07-12-2010, 01:40 PM	#16
Topaz Legend Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,648	Was more referring to someone getting injured in the previous match and then not being able to play in the next one. Sometimes people go with just barely enough to field a match, through nobody's fault. If someone goes down, then they are short and have to default. __________________ What would you do if you knew you could not fail?