Sports psychologists for juniors?

[mike53]

Chapter 11 of Bollettieri's Tennis Handbook has a lot of good info regarding age appropriate guidelines for athletic development. But when he disses the American and Canadian models ( circa 1995), it's not clear to me whether he's dissing himself or saying he's different.

[momtogrif]

Originally Posted by notennis

This would be a case where mommy and daddy need the Psychologist as it is very easy to read between the lines as to what is going on in this situation. If the kid lacks confidence it is because of the way he has been brought along. Time to reaavaluate yourselvs..........

Ok, I have debated on whether I should bother to respond to you but since you have chosen to personally attack my parenting when all I wanted was an answer to a question, I'll explain. I didn't ask you to critique or criticize my parenting.

My son was born with a lack of oxygen to his brain as he got stuck coming into this world and it was too late for a c-section. I nearly died giving birth and he suffered some neurological conditions due to that situation. We have run the gamut of doctors, counselors, naturopaths, specialists, neurologists, etc. I am so blessed to have a healthy and physically capable young man on my hands. We have not coddled him, we do not pander to him, but we do have to protect him because of his anxiety disorders and because we are his parents and that's our job. Tennis has been a saving grace for my son. It has given him confidence and many of his anxiety issues have disappeared since he started competing.
All I asked for was: is a sports psychologist a good idea or are there any book recommendations. Yes, I did state that he 'got his rear handed to him' but those were his words and he sometimes gets very distressed when he loses to someone 6-0, 6-0 when he knows he could have gotten more games off the kid because they've practiced together before. It comes down to his nerves on court and to the expectations he places on himself. I'm usually just happy that he's competing. You have no idea what we've been through as a family.

As an aside: When he was playing at the Quiksilver tournament(which was a great tournament for him, he won his first round, got thrown into consolations and won his first round in a 3 set match) a man from a relatively new clothing company was watching his match. He told me that he's never seen a kid who is so polite, behaved, and well-mannered on court. He gave me some paperwork for a sponsorship program that they have for kids. It's based on rankings and performance at tournaments and the better the kids do, the better the discount on their packages. Yesterday, my son got an email that they've accepted him into their program and sent him a contract. Now, I know that this really isn't that big of a deal. It's just a discount on clothing but to him it was HUGE. He was recognized for his good behavior and invited to participate in a discount program. He's only been playing in national tournaments since January of this year. Next time I post questions on this board I'll be sure to give our life's history so that I can't be condemned and criticized, thanks.

[milesm]

Craig is a former tennis player and college coach and has a PhD in sports psychology. He has his own consulting business now and works with athletes at Brigham Young and around the country. He has worked with my kids and I have learned a lot from him.

http://visualizeone.com/

Good luck.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by mike53

A life coach could have done me a lot of good 20-30 years ago, but I'm afraid it's too late for me now.

Do you think a life coach could help the OP? Do they cost more or less than a sports psych?

I have heard of only a few people who can afford them. High-level executives (either on their own money or paid by the company as a developmental expense), small-business owners, sports stars, movie actors, and the like. Life coaches are involved in every aspect of your life and so cost a lot. They are not once-a-week psychiatrists.

I like the idea, but I could never afford it. Look at it this way. In most cases, if you want to learn tennis, you don't get that knowledge from your parents, friends, or relatives. Same for your profession. I am not including some exceptions, like sons of tennis players. Yet when it comes to life, all you really got is your network, plus some TV and movies and books, and religious guidance. Much of that may be dysfunctional and biased, based on individual opinions, not your happiness. Parents are the first coaches, but they can only do their best given their limitations, economy etc and are again only one viewpoint.

So who is really coaching you about your life? Anyone at all?

Yet that is more important that tennis or your profession.

[TennisCoachFLA]

Originally Posted by momtogrif

Ok, I have debated on whether I should bother to respond to you but since you have chosen to personally attack my parenting when all I wanted was an answer to a question, I'll explain. I didn't ask you to critique or criticize my parenting.

My son was born with a lack of oxygen to his brain as he got stuck coming into this world and it was too late for a c-section. I nearly died giving birth and he suffered some neurological conditions due to that situation. We have run the gamut of doctors, counselors, naturopaths, specialists, neurologists, etc. I am so blessed to have a healthy and physically capable young man on my hands. We have not coddled him, we do not pander to him, but we do have to protect him because of his anxiety disorders and because we are his parents and that's our job. Tennis has been a saving grace for my son. It has given him confidence and many of his anxiety issues have disappeared since he started competing.
All I asked for was: is a sports psychologist a good idea or are there any book recommendations. Yes, I did state that he 'got his rear handed to him' but those were his words and he sometimes gets very distressed when he loses to someone 6-0, 6-0 when he knows he could have gotten more games off the kid because they've practiced together before. It comes down to his nerves on court and to the expectations he places on himself. I'm usually just happy that he's competing. You have no idea what we've been through as a family.

As an aside: When he was playing at the Quiksilver tournament(which was a great tournament for him, he won his first round, got thrown into consolations and won his first round in a 3 set match) a man from a relatively new clothing company was watching his match. He told me that he's never seen a kid who is so polite, behaved, and well-mannered on court. He gave me some paperwork for a sponsorship program that they have for kids. It's based on rankings and performance at tournaments and the better the kids do, the better the discount on their packages. Yesterday, my son got an email that they've accepted him into their program and sent him a contract. Now, I know that this really isn't that big of a deal. It's just a discount on clothing but to him it was HUGE. He was recognized for his good behavior and invited to participate in a discount program. He's only been playing in national tournaments since January of this year. Next time I post questions on this board I'll be sure to give our life's history so that I can't be condemned and criticized, thanks.

Very true mom. Whether the question is about homeschooling or tennis academies or anything, we have posters who give judgments rather than answering the questions.

Thankfully if you go through this thread there are some posts that just give helpful books or Drs. names.

[Larrysümmers]

Originally Posted by momtogrif

My husband and I were joking that we should hire a sports psychologist for our son. At first I thought it was a bad idea, but I'm thinking that it might be just the right thing for him, although I don't know much about the profession and if there is anyone in the Phoenix area worth the money. My son was very frustrated with himself after a tournament this weekend. He says he kept playing too safe because he was nervous and if he tried to 'go for it', he would over hit and hit the balls long. So, he chose to keep the ball in play and took 50% pace off his shots and got his rear handed to him in the process. He had 2 matches go to a 3rd set and he lost both of them. He says he doesn't know how to calm his nerves and he says that he gets more frustrated with himself as the match moves on. He says he doesn't understand why after a year of playing tournaments that he still gets so nervous and plays like a 'pusher'(his words, not mine). So, I was also wondering if there are any techniques or phrases I could use with him to coach him? Books? Or, is a sports psychologist really a good idea sometimes???

how much do you push him? i know at a young age i was pushed hard(baseball and soccer) i always felt like if i didnt do well i would let everyone down.
even with me playing tennis for 2 years i feel nervous in matches and dont go all out. and as the match goes on i get more and more upset im 17 btw.
i also think that an 11 year old doesnt need a psychologist because it will put more pressure on him to do good. like hey mommy and daddy are paying a lot of money to make me better so if i hit balls out or in the net they will be upset

you need to tell him that no matter what he should try his best and that if he messes up big whoop. do what it takes to have fun, by having fun you get better.. and after a loss dont go to the courts the next day to work on things. ONLY if he wants to. thats what i hated most, after an 0-3 day going out to batting practice.

this is what i think coming from a former youth athlete. and i remember it well since it wasnt that long ago.

[notennis]

Originally Posted by Larrysümmers

how much do you push him? i know at a young age i was pushed hard(baseball and soccer) i always felt like if i didnt do well i would let everyone down.
even with me playing tennis for 2 years i feel nervous in matches and dont go all out. and as the match goes on i get more and more upset im 17 btw.
i also think that an 11 year old doesnt need a psychologist because it will put more pressure on him to do good. like hey mommy and daddy are paying a lot of money to make me better so if i hit balls out or in the net they will be upset

you need to tell him that no matter what he should try his best and that if he messes up big whoop. do what it takes to have fun, by having fun you get better.. and after a loss dont go to the courts the next day to work on things. ONLY if he wants to. thats what i hated most, after an 0-3 day going out to batting practice.

this is what i think coming from a former youth athlete. and i remember it well since it wasnt that long ago.

Questionable advice. All those reasons will be why this youngster does (not) succeed.

[mikeler]

I did not get into tennis until I was 14 years old and did not play tournaments until I was almost 15. The exact same thing would happen to me as happened to your son. I'd play great practice matches with my buddies and then I'd enter the tournament and be so nervous that I'd turn into a pusher.

I probably played 20 tournaments before it finally changed. I had just lost to a seed 0 and 0 with my pushing scared style and was in a consolation round. My pushing ways had finally broken me. I was so sick of losing like that I said I'm hitting everything just like I do in practice no matter what. I'm just going to go for it. That match I played great, yet still lost. But it was not a loss at all because I have never let nerves get the best of me since then.

Here are my 3 cents:

1. He'll eventually play enough that it will just go away. You get more comfortable each tournament you play so let him play them a lot.

2. The goal of playing the tournament is not about winning or losing. The goal is to play like you practice.

3. Wait a few years before you consider a sports psychologist.

[heartman]

Let your kid develop his commitment to the concept of competition at this time. He can play tennis for fun, take private lessons, and learn match strategy without worrying about whether a sports psychologist is needed. Losses are just as important as wins at this point in time. Both are valuable outcomes - both can provide opportunity for personal growth and maturation, on his terms.

Let him be a kid - reading your post makes me think he's an early teen, at best - make sure he's fundamentally sound, and let him be a kid. The mental toughness he develops will be due to his commitment and dedication to tennis and the thrill of competition, not to his mom & dad.

Back off, Barbie.

[TennisCoachFLA]

Originally Posted by heartman

Let your kid develop his commitment to the concept of competition at this time. He can play tennis for fun, take private lessons, and learn match strategy without worrying about whether a sports psychologist is needed. Losses are just as important as wins at this point in time. Both are valuable outcomes - both can provide opportunity for personal growth and maturation, on his terms.

Let him be a kid - reading your post makes me think he's an early teen, at best - make sure he's fundamentally sound, and let him be a kid. The mental toughness he develops will be due to his commitment and dedication to tennis and the thrill of competition, not to his mom & dad.

Back off, Barbie.

You are way out of line with your last sentence.

[papatenis]

Mom,

I've been there, hard not to get caught up in your childs tournament matches. Usually after a long day of watching my kids tournament matches, I think I'm more physically and mentally tired then they are.

Best advice, spend the money on your childs strokes, mental lessons came help when they are older.

Heartman, I hope you were not serious with your "back off Barbie" comment.

[ClarkC]

Originally Posted by heartman

Back off, Barbie.

Back off, Rookie poster.

[trojankid]

Originally Posted by heartman

Let your kid develop his commitment to the concept of competition at this time. He can play tennis for fun, take private lessons, and learn match strategy without worrying about whether a sports psychologist is needed. Losses are just as important as wins at this point in time. Both are valuable outcomes - both can provide opportunity for personal growth and maturation, on his terms.

Let him be a kid - reading your post makes me think he's an early teen, at best - make sure he's fundamentally sound, and let him be a kid. The mental toughness he develops will be due to his commitment and dedication to tennis and the thrill of competition, not to his mom & dad.

Back off, Barbie.

You are and Idiot , Im sorry i should not call you that forgive for being honest.

[heartman]

Raw nerve then...exactly why was my last sentence out of line? Are you telling me I'm wrong, or implying that I'm just narrow-minded? God knows a tennis pro needs the parents to pay the bills from instruction...

This oughta' be good...

And to the original poster, just how old is this kid?

[momtogrif]

Originally Posted by heartman

Raw nerve then...exactly why was my last sentence out of line? Are you telling me I'm wrong, or implying that I'm just narrow-minded? God knows a tennis pro needs the parents to pay the bills from instruction...

This oughta' be good...

And to the original poster, just how old is this kid?

HAHA! I actually laughed at the Barbie comment. Quite frankly, I'll take that as a compliment. I have the blonde hair and height but I'd love to have her figure, LOL!
Seriously, my son is almost 12. And, if you read the whole thread and see a post further down you'll know why I was asking about a sports psych. I'm not trying to go overboard, I want to do what's best for a child with neurological issues. If I thought it was such a wonderful idea I would have signed him up with someone already, all I wanted was opinions about it and if anyone found it to be helpful with their own children. At least some folks on here have given me an honest answer and their own experiences, too.

[heartman]

Well, there you go then. Let's hope he's still enjoying tennis in 5 years, and that his neurological issues have come under control - maybe even fade away.

Ahhh, perspective, the never-ending accountability factor.

[ClarkC]

Momtogrif: Here is some advice on the mental aspects of tennis. A lot of parents and coaches talk about how winning is not that important at a certain age, that we should focus on development and winning will come later as a result of development.

The problem is that most kids have no particular goal besides winning when they step on the court. AFTER the match, parents will often say that it does not matter that they lost, but BEFORE the match the kid has been given no clear goal.

At your son's age, I was giving my youngest son ONE goal per match, or even per tournament. For example, after a frustrating point, he was to go to the back fence, turn his back on the court, take a couple of slow, deep breaths, tell himself honestly "That was a frustrating point," and then tell himself that the point is over and it is time to focus on the next point.

Before the tournament, I would emphasize how important it was to learn this, and I would tell him that if he actually did this, then the tournament was a success. And I MEANT it. When he came off the court after a win, I did not congratulate him about the win, which sends the message that all that talk about how winning was not the most important thing is a bunch of nonsense. After all, if it is the first thing the parents talk about, then it is the most important thing! Instead, I would calmly ask him whether he used the new mental technique. The answer was usually along the lines of, "Most of the time, but not always. Sometimes I let the previous point get to me." Then I would say that it takes time, but I would point out that he was already seeing the benefits.

What I emphasized to my son was that you build your tennis game one piece at a time, and there are a couple hundred pieces. His coach was working on lots of pieces called technique, and I was going to work with him on some mental pieces (and so did his coach). If he mastered one technique, we would go on to the next one. For example, when he mastered letting the previous point go, then there was the mental emphasis on not rushing his second serve, because impatience and rushing was leading to a lot of double faults. When that piece was mastered, it was on to the next item.

You would be amazed what about 2-3 mental improvement will do for his enjoyment of the game, and his results will follow as a side effect. You can also move on to pure technique goals, like your goal for the whole tournament is to practice a certain stroke or stroke pattern.

The basic problem is that coaches and parents say that development is more important than winning, but the first question or comment after a match or tournament is always about the results. In the education world this is called "the hidden curriculum," the actual things that kids are picking up on and learning even though they are not part of the official curriculum.

If a kid steps on the court and the goal is not winning, then what is it? If the kid cannot answer, then the hidden message is that winning is the thing. When you ask your kid what would make this next tournament a success, and he has no answer besides winning a certain number of matches, then he will not overcome the mental hurdles at age 11.

[TennisCoachFLA]

Originally Posted by ClarkC

Momtogrif: Here is some advice on the mental aspects of tennis. A lot of parents and coaches talk about how winning is not that important at a certain age, that we should focus on development and winning will come later as a result of development.

The problem is that most kids have no particular goal besides winning when they step on the court. AFTER the match, parents will often say that it does not matter that they lost, but BEFORE the match the kid has been given no clear goal.

At your son's age, I was giving my youngest son ONE goal per match, or even per tournament. For example, after a frustrating point, he was to go to the back fence, turn his back on the court, take a couple of slow, deep breaths, tell himself honestly "That was a frustrating point," and then tell himself that the point is over and it is time to focus on the next point.

Before the tournament, I would emphasize how important it was to learn this, and I would tell him that if he actually did this, then the tournament was a success. And I MEANT it. When he came off the court after a win, I did not congratulate him about the win, which send the message that all that talk about how winning was not the most important thing is a bunch of nonsense. After all, if it is the first thing the parents talk about, then it is the most important thing! Instead, I would calmly ask him whether he used the new mental technique. The answer was usually along the lines of, "Most of the time, but not always. Sometimes I let the previous point get to me." Then I would say that it takes time, but I would point out that he was already seeing the benefits.

What I emphasized to my son was that you build your tennis game one piece at a time, and there are a couple hundred pieces. His coach was working on lots of pieces called technique, and I was going to work with him on some mental pieces (and so did his coach). If he mastered one technique, we would go on to the next one. For example, when he mastered letting the previous point go, then there was the mental emphasis on not rushing his second serve, because impatience and rushing was leading to a lot of double faults. When that piece was mastered, it was on to the next item.

You would be amazed what about 2-3 mental improvement will do for his enjoyment of the game, and his results will follow as a side effect. You can also move on to pure technique goals, like your goal for the whole tournament is to practice a certain stroke or stroke pattern.

The basic problem is that coaches and parents say that development is more important than winning, but the first question or comment after a match or tournament is always about the results. In the education world this is called "the hidden curriculum," the actual things that kids are picking up on and learning even though they are not part of the official curriculum.

If a kid steps on the court and the goal is not winning, then what is it? If the kid cannot answer, then the hidden message is that winning is the thing. When you ask your kid what would make this next tournament a success, and he has no answer besides winning a certain number of matches, then he will not overcome the mental hurdles at age 11.

Thank you for one of the best and most valuable posts that I have ever read. Amazing post sir.

[Don't Let It Bounce]

Originally Posted by ClarkC

Momtogrif: Here is some advice on the mental aspects of tennis...

Well done, well done, well done. I am confident that your approach will benefit your son throughout his life to a degree and in ways that dwarf even what it does for his tennis.

[heartman]

And the question we present after the match becomes paramount to on-court performance, personal growth and discovery - "How do you feel you played today?". The issue of winning/losing is part of the equation, but assessment of preparation technique/activity is best addressed through players opinion, and coaches critique. Simple discussion relative to goals established prior to contest should be as objective as possible - subjectivity can lead one into the emotional component, which may not be the best place due to the players age.