Was I sandbagged?

Klaus · 06-08-2010, 09:25 AM

I joined a new Ultimate Tennis league at 3.5.

I lost my first match 1-0, against another 3.5 guy who had:

huge, hard topspin serve
giant topspin lob
could return any angle I gave him
played the net very well
was totally solid on both wings
could run anything down.

Are these elements commonly found in the 3.5 skill category?

The only thing he did not have, was endurance, as he threw up a little at the fence during the second set, since all I could do was run him around, but he still managed to totally disable all my weapons.

I rarely lose in my 3.5 category, and my record is something like 45-6.

I just tried to block many of his serves and returns, and our two sets were over in less than an hour.

I didn't get frustrated, as it seemed his level was so much higher so there was not much I could do, and I tried everything, varying serves, changing pace, massive topspin, angles, coming in . . . .

Does he sound like a high 3.5? Just wondering, as I have never seen this skill level in my category.

Best, Klaus

raiden031 · 06-08-2010, 09:32 AM

Given your dominant record at 3.5, the guy was probably a solid 4.0 player (or better). Everybody gets sandbagged every now and again. I'm a 4.0 and lost to a self-rated 3.5 player 6-3, 6-0 (the guy got DQ'd up to 4.0 afterwards). I lost to another 4.0 6-2, 6-0 who then got DQ'd up to 4.5. It happens alot. You just suck it up and realize that the rating on paper of your opponents don't really mean a lot.

You have to view their results against other players for yourself to really gauge how good your opponent is.

Marshredder · 06-08-2010, 09:32 AM

Sounds like Nadal's playing 3.5 leagues!

AutoXer · 06-08-2010, 09:33 AM

In my area I find that Ultimate Tennis ratings are not a direct crossover from USTA ratings. Typically here, a 3.0 is about a 3.5 in usta and so on. I don't feel they are sandbagging in my area, just much stronger than what you would find at the same rating in usta. Most of the people i've played in ultimate are not usta members. Might just be a local thing though for my area. I prefer to play the singles flex leagues and don't hardly ever play usta at all(some mixed combo leagues every now and then for the fun of it).

bodieq · 06-08-2010, 09:35 AM

It's always difficult to respond to these type of threads because tennis skills and comparisons are all essentially relative. You say he had a "huge serve" but one person's perception of that could be different from another's. But it looks like you've been playing 3.5 for a while now, and you've got an overwhelmingly winning-record at 3.5.....so if you think opponent was sandbagging....he probably was.

spot · 06-08-2010, 10:10 AM

Was this his first season in Ultimate Tennis? The nice thing is that you can look up a player's history. Ultimate tennis does a great job of getting people to a decent level but of course self rates can be way off.

Geezer Guy · 06-08-2010, 05:03 PM

Holy Cow. You're 45 & 6? Sounds like you're the sandbagger. Move on up, buddy. You're more than ready.

West Coast Ace · 06-08-2010, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezer Guy

Holy Cow. You're 45 & 6? Sounds like you're the sandbagger. Move on up, buddy. You're more than ready.

You beat me to it. And look what Klaus said in another thread (nicest thing an opponent ever said):

"You had me into the fence the entire match with that forehand." He made countless whiffs trying to return it.

So he plays people who whiff? Could they even be < 3.0?

Edward DFW · 06-08-2010, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezer Guy

Holy Cow. You're 45 & 6? Sounds like you're the sandbagger. Move on up, buddy. You're more than ready.

I agree. Pot. Kettle. Black.

darrinbaker00 · 06-08-2010, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by West Coast Ace

You beat me to it. And look what Klaus said in another thread (nicest thing an opponent ever said):

"You had me into the fence the entire match with that forehand." He made countless whiffs trying to return it.

So he plays people who whiff? Could they even be < 3.0?

Nadal played a guy who whiffed on match point last month in Madrid.

NLBwell · 06-08-2010, 10:07 PM

So you think Nadal is sandbagging?

darrinbaker00 · 06-08-2010, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLBwell

So you think Nadal is sandbagging?

Very much so, yes. He needs to be bumped up ASAP.

Klaus · 06-09-2010, 10:36 AM

I am quite a distance from 4.0, and was just moved up en masse like so many of us were from 3.0, after a non-stellar doubles season, thank you very much! I do have some skills, (good put-away forehand) and lack crucial other ones (like a good serve) and I think the reason I have beaten so many opponents is because they have over-rated themselves. Me, I am a middle-of-the-road 3.5: good solid groundstrokes, occasional luck at the net, mediocre serve, fairly good court coverage (and great endurance which also has helped me on ocasion with better players.)

When this monster crushed me at 6-1, 6-1, I just thought it was weird, since he was so highly skilled on things 3.5s usually don't have.

06-09-2010, 10:46 AM

he is a solid 4 or higher it sounds like.

813wilson · 06-09-2010, 11:00 AM

When this monster crushed me at 6-1, 6-1, I just thought it was weird, since he was so highly skilled on things 3.5s usually don't have.

Well, at least you got another game the second time you reported the scores....

My experience with K Swiss/Ultimate Tennis is that a rating there is USUALLY a full point higher than USTA or NTRP. Many of the 4.5 guys I play in USTA were playing 5 & 5.5 Ultimate/K Swiss leagues.

If your record is that strong in that league you should be moving up, there is more than one way to sandbag.....

Klaus · 06-09-2010, 11:48 AM

My bad wilson, the score was 6-1, 6-0. sorry for that error.

My record of wins and losses is not in Ultimate tennis, but another league.

I realize that Ultimate tennis ratings are different than USTA, but I could not enter Ultimate at 3.0 since they check USTA ratings. No worries, if I lose every match in Ultimate tennis, I will have learned all kinds of things and will improve so it will be a good experience either way.

Thanks for everyone's input, accusatory or helpful!

spot · 06-09-2010, 12:06 PM

Klaus- did you look up your opponent's history? You can easily see whether this player is new to the league and may have misrated.

Chris Rizutto · 06-09-2010, 12:27 PM

There are alot of sand bagging cod sacks.

burosky · 06-10-2010, 09:14 AM

Maybe he is on the verge of getting bumped up to 6.0? Oooops, I meant 4.0.

06-08-2010, 09:25 AM	#1
Klaus New User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 78	Was I sandbagged? I joined a new Ultimate Tennis league at 3.5. I lost my first match 1-0, against another 3.5 guy who had: huge, hard topspin serve giant topspin lob could return any angle I gave him played the net very well was totally solid on both wings could run anything down. Are these elements commonly found in the 3.5 skill category? The only thing he did not have, was endurance, as he threw up a little at the fence during the second set, since all I could do was run him around, but he still managed to totally disable all my weapons. I rarely lose in my 3.5 category, and my record is something like 45-6. I just tried to block many of his serves and returns, and our two sets were over in less than an hour. I didn't get frustrated, as it seemed his level was so much higher so there was not much I could do, and I tried everything, varying serves, changing pace, massive topspin, angles, coming in . . . . Does he sound like a high 3.5? Just wondering, as I have never seen this skill level in my category. Best, Klaus

06-08-2010, 09:32 AM	#2
raiden031 Legend Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5,997	Given your dominant record at 3.5, the guy was probably a solid 4.0 player (or better). Everybody gets sandbagged every now and again. I'm a 4.0 and lost to a self-rated 3.5 player 6-3, 6-0 (the guy got DQ'd up to 4.0 afterwards). I lost to another 4.0 6-2, 6-0 who then got DQ'd up to 4.5. It happens alot. You just suck it up and realize that the rating on paper of your opponents don't really mean a lot. You have to view their results against other players for yourself to really gauge how good your opponent is. __________________ There's no place for pushers in doubles. Federer leads 5-4 against Nadal on non-clay surfaces.

06-08-2010, 09:33 AM	#4
AutoXer Rookie Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Cartersville, GA Posts: 213	In my area I find that Ultimate Tennis ratings are not a direct crossover from USTA ratings. Typically here, a 3.0 is about a 3.5 in usta and so on. I don't feel they are sandbagging in my area, just much stronger than what you would find at the same rating in usta. Most of the people i've played in ultimate are not usta members. Might just be a local thing though for my area. I prefer to play the singles flex leagues and don't hardly ever play usta at all(some mixed combo leagues every now and then for the fun of it). __________________ Vantage VT221, 330g, 12pts HL, Solinco BarbWire 52lbs.

06-09-2010, 10:36 AM	#13
Klaus New User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 78	Right, turn against me! I am quite a distance from 4.0, and was just moved up en masse like so many of us were from 3.0, after a non-stellar doubles season, thank you very much! I do have some skills, (good put-away forehand) and lack crucial other ones (like a good serve) and I think the reason I have beaten so many opponents is because they have over-rated themselves. Me, I am a middle-of-the-road 3.5: good solid groundstrokes, occasional luck at the net, mediocre serve, fairly good court coverage (and great endurance which also has helped me on ocasion with better players.) When this monster crushed me at 6-1, 6-1, I just thought it was weird, since he was so highly skilled on things 3.5s usually don't have.

06-09-2010, 11:48 AM	#16
Klaus New User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 78	Oops! My bad wilson, the score was 6-1, 6-0. sorry for that error. My record of wins and losses is not in Ultimate tennis, but another league. I realize that Ultimate tennis ratings are different than USTA, but I could not enter Ultimate at 3.0 since they check USTA ratings. No worries, if I lose every match in Ultimate tennis, I will have learned all kinds of things and will improve so it will be a good experience either way. Thanks for everyone's input, accusatory or helpful!