slice backhand help

[Mr_Shiver]

Originally Posted by fruitytennis1

Not doubting your extensive experience but...im sure that #1 is wrong.

i'm sure the guy who posted it would appreciate it if you elaborated on your criticism.

[fruitytennis1]

Originally Posted by Mr_Shiver

i'm sure the guy who posted it would appreciate it if you elaborated on your criticism.

Im just kinda lazy. Ill defer the elaboration to LeeD cause he can probably explain it better.

[GetBetterer]

How is that any way to defend your point...having someone else do it for you? -_-

[Slazenger07]

Originally Posted by Mr_Shiver

i'm sure the guy who posted it would appreciate it if you elaborated on your criticism.

I dont understand why he should feel the need to elaborate, obviously the slice backhand is not as physically taxing of a shot (doesnt require as much energy) as the backhand drive, anybody that plays tennis at a decent standard should know that.

[spacediver]

Originally Posted by fruitytennis1

Not doubting your extensive experience but...im sure that #1 is wrong.

I wouldn't be surprised that you'd need more energy for a slice backhand than a drive in many cases. It's certainly true that if you want to achieve the same ball speed that a slice backhand would require a much faster racquet head speed.

[Slazenger07]

Originally Posted by spacediver

I wouldn't be surprised that you'd need more energy for a slice backhand than a drive in many cases. It's certainly true that if you want to achieve the same ball speed that a slice backhand would require a much faster racquet head speed.

How could you need more energy for a slice? It requires less racquet head speed and less energy overall, that not to say it doesnt require plenty of energy because it does, but the amount needed will not be more than you would need to hit a drive.

[LeeD]

Energy needed....
Old farts all slice.
Very few topspin heavy.
End of story.

[spacediver]

Originally Posted by Slazenger07

How could you need more energy for a slice? It requires less racquet head speed and less energy overall, that not to say it doesnt require plenty of energy because it does, but the amount needed will not be more than you would need to hit a drive.

First of all, not all drives are equal and not all slices are equal. For simplicity's sake, let's assume we have one slice and one drive, and in each case we want the ball to travel the same speed.

In the drive case, there isn't isn't as much disparity between the direction that the racquet head is traveling relative to the direction that the ball travels, compared to the case of the slice.

In the slice, you need a faster speed to impart the same velocity on the ball because a lot of the energy is being used to spin the ball rather than impart linear momentum.

It's the same reason you need super fast racquet head speed in a spin serve compared to a flat serve, all else being equal.

[escii_35]

Originally Posted by LeeD

Energy needed....
Old farts all slice.
Very few topspin heavy.
End of story.

or

If you want to slice like steff don't be lazy. Lean into it and work that ball. No falling away limp wrist-ed flailing junk.

I hit my best slices clay because I can euro-slide into the shot forcing a nice lean in.

[fruitytennis1]

Originally Posted by spacediver

I wouldn't be surprised that you'd need more energy for a slice backhand than a drive in many cases. It's certainly true that if you want to achieve the same ball speed that a slice backhand would require a much faster racquet head speed.

Yea, except your not trying to achieve the same speed with the slice...(unless of course your aiming for the fence)

[fruitytennis1]

Originally Posted by spacediver

For simplicity's sake, let's assume we have one slice and one drive, and in each case we want the ball to travel the same speed.
.

Again a slice is rarely hit at the same pace of a normal drive.

[Mr_Shiver]

Originally Posted by Slazenger07

I dont understand why he should feel the need to elaborate, obviously the slice backhand is not as physically taxing of a shot (doesnt require as much energy) as the backhand drive, anybody that plays tennis at a decent standard should know that.

How helpful is a comment that says you are wrong but doesn't explain why or how to correct the error? You say it is obvious that a slice requires less energy. To you and me and anyone who knows how to correctly perform a slice this is obvious. What about someone who doesn't know how to perform a slice? If he is consistently exerting too much force isn't it safe to say that he is unaware of his mistake? Isn't it then safe to say that offering an explanation as to what he should do differently would be of great help? In addition i don't know what level the poster is at. I've seen plenty of newbies try to hack a slice like they were in a slasher flic.

[papa]

Originally Posted by fruitytennis1

Again a slice is rarely hit at the same pace of a normal drive.

True but a slice drive can be an effective shot. It has that 3/4 speed which can really mix up things.

There was a time when "older" players just used slice but things have changed dramatically in the last few years. Although slice can be used nicely in today's game, your not going to win if that's all you can hit - doesn't matter what the age is unless your playing at fairly low levels.

[spacediver]

Originally Posted by fruitytennis1

Again a slice is rarely hit at the same pace of a normal drive.

right, so then the question becomes: does the average slice have a larger or smaller energy expenditure, or require more or less racquet head speed, compared to the average drive.

I'm not experienced enough to have an answer for this.

I just wanted to illustrate that, counter to some intuitions, strokes that have a large brushing component require a tonne of racquet head speed to effect the same pace as strokes that have a small brushing component.

[papa]

Originally Posted by spacediver

right, so then the question becomes: does the average slice have a larger or smaller energy expenditure, or require more or less racquet head speed, compared to the average drive.

I'm not experienced enough to have an answer for this.

I just wanted to illustrate that, counter to some intuitions, strokes that have a large brushing component require a tonne of racquet head speed to effect the same pace as strokes that have a small brushing component.

Much less energy required but that isn't the whole story.

[Wilander Fan]

Originally Posted by LeeD

Energy needed....
Old farts all slice.
Very few topspin heavy.
End of story.

I think its because of footspeed more than energy. Slice gives you more time since you can hit it very late. You need to hit the topspin much earlier so you need to get there faster.

Personally, I think the slice does properly does take more energy since its a big sweeping stroke. You have to really generate alot of racket speed or the ball is going to float. For recreational tennis, its really a tough shot since you need to get a hang of the feel for the spin but it plays havoc on guys with big topspin forehands (almost everyone now) because that variable spin on the bounce throws off their big swing and makes them cut it down.

[ho]

Originally Posted by LeeD

Energy needed....
Old farts all slice.
Very few topspin heavy.
End of story.

lots of energy is needed if you really want the ball to slice down as Steffi. A full shoulder turn to the max: hitting shoulder under chin is a must. but it will float and sail out if you slide under the ball.
to keep it not to do so, aim at 7:00 o'clock or 8:00 o'clock.
a combination of side spin and under spin will get the job done. keep the arm fixed ( no opening when slide down) will get the timing easier.

[fuzz nation]

My thoughts on the bh slice, which I've been using since my formative years when I played with wood racquets on grass courts.

The actual swing of the racquet doesn't seem to require any extra energy and I think that this is mostly due to the fact that the slice doesn't alter the spin on the ball after it bounces up off the court. It's more of a redirection without requiring a lot of the angular contact and bite on the ball that you see in a topspin drive. The topspin stroke redirects the ball and also reverses its spin.

Executing a proper bh slice requires at least as much energy in terms of deliberate footwork and perhaps even more than a topspin 2hbh. The slice demands both a set up and weight transfer before the stroke when done correctly, while a topspin two-hander can be quickly executed by planting the feet and rotating the shoulders to bring the racquet around.

But what the heck, it takes energy to hit either shot, right?

The pace of a slice bh is usually not as hot as a topspin bh and this is a good thing for a couple of reasons. The slice is often a defensive stroke and if it flies less quickly to the far end of the court, it gives the hitter time to get back in the point - no great mystery. The other thing is that the backspin makes the ball float along on a flatter trajectory. Hit it too hard and it's gonna eventually carry right over the baseline, since it doesn't inherently turn over like a topspin ball.

[fruitytennis1]

To those who are saying bh slice takes more energy than a drive(talking about the stroke itself) do you actually play tennis?

[Mr_Shiver]

I don't care how much energy bla bla bla... I just love the feeling of hitting a slice that streams just above the net and then skids on the court like a rock skipping on water. I love it when someone sets up and plants too early on a sidespin slice and it bounces right into them or away from them. I enjoy a good slice just as much as a well angled volley and almost as much as a scorching DLT winner. Ok, enough beer induced rambling.