A Rudeness Grievance?

Cindysphinx · 06-18-2010, 07:14 AM

OK, this story is just plain weird. I will tell you that up front.

I have a friend I see in fitness class. She is a member of a posh club, but this year she decided to play 3.5 USTA night league for the first time.

Anyway, the other day I asked her how it was going. She said she probably wasn't going to play USTA anymore, especially given how a recent match had gone. She said that her opponent was really not nice and was very rude. I asked for details, but she was kind of vague. One thing she said was that the lady got upset when they questioned her line calls. I got the impression that the lady was impatient, aloof, curt, and according to my friend just kind of nasty.

Then she told me the lady's name. It turns out the lady is one of my doubles partners. I played one 4.0 match with her, and when we were both 3.0s we played 2-3 3.5 matches together. Now, I wouldn't necessarily say her tennis style is to my liking (kind of a power player who struggles with consistency), but I had no problems at all with her personality toward me or her opponents. Two other TT posters have partnered with her, and so far as I know they didn't have problems either. Another TT poster played against her and mentioned the match on the board, but I can't for the life of me remember whether there were any rudeness issues.

Well, get this. My friend filed a grievance against this lady! For rudeness, I guess. My friend said that the lady filed a response to the grievance, and in it she said something like, "I wonder if Serena Williams has grievances filed against her for being focused and hitting the ball hard."

And get this: The league issued a reprimand to this lady!

I don't get it. I have run across many opponents who played in a style I didn't appreciate. Everything from raining balls down on us rather than handing them to us, not making small talk, being sore losers, being argumentative, whatever. Never once did I consider filing a grievance. Maybe this lady's style wouldn't fly at a posh country club, but I'd be shocked to hear that it was truly inappropriate. Then again, maybe this is not the first grievance so the league is finally addressing it with her?

Weird. So weird. I mean, if there was anything truly grievance-worthy, wouldn't my friend have come right out with it (like "She swore at us and hit balls at us whenever she disagreed with a call"). Should a grievance have to involve something a bit more concrete than this? Or should the league figure that if something is serious enough to make someone bother to file a grievance perhaps there is something to it?

larry10s · 06-18-2010, 08:03 AM

without knowing the details of what happened you cant draw any conclusions.
im always amazed how you get involved in drama situations

Cindysphinx · 06-18-2010, 08:09 AM

Hey, I wasn't involved! I am totally innocent of any and all Drama in this one.

ksteph · 06-18-2010, 09:53 AM

Hi Cindy,

I had a match this year where may opponent was terrible, but I never thought of filing a grievance against her. I'm surprised that the USTA reprimanded the opponent. She may have had other grievances filed against her.

Cindysphinx · 06-18-2010, 10:19 AM

Ksteph, you're one of the TT posters who has partnered with this lady! Small world, eh?

BustedString · 06-18-2010, 12:20 PM

That is bizarre. Can the USTA even issue reprimands? I guess they can but does it mean anything? I'm sure if the player appealed, it would be dismissed. We had a 4.0M in the 7.0MX league here who was given a "warning" by the LLC and he appealed that and it was scrubbed. The grievance committee is supposed to evaluate actual USTA regulations and politeness isn't anywhere in them. Unsportsmanlike conduct is but it doesn't sound like anything unsportsmanlike happened here.

There's a guy in my leagues who is just a total DB and often gets kicked off teams or not asked back. I've had to play him 6 times and he keeps losing it because he's convinced he's better than me. Our last meeting was last fall at Combo and he got so frustrated that he started throwing the balls away from me, onto other courts, instead of handing or passing them to me. That would have been a good rudeness grievance but alas, it just isn't worth it.

sureshs · 06-18-2010, 12:24 PM

How exactly was she rude?

I think this is an issue for a lawsuit. While it is true that organizations can enforce their rules, there is also such a thing as fairness and non-arbitrary treatment.

And the USTA is also a government-supported organization.

BustedString · 06-18-2010, 12:45 PM

I'm sure if the "rude" person would appeal to something higher than a local committee, that the "reprimand" would get tossed out unless her behavior was clearly unsportsmanlike.

I guess that begs the question. What is the difference between unsportsmanlike and rude?

Cindysphinx · 06-18-2010, 01:51 PM

Our local rules require sportsmanlike behavior and adherence to the Code and suchlike, of course.

What surprises me is that I thought grievances were reserved for objective things, not subjective things. Like, you could have a grievance that a captain refused to adhere to a rule (insisting on defaulting line 1 instead of line 3). Or a player stalled to run out the clock in a timed match. Or a player lied about her experience for self-rating.

I do recall some years back being at a captain's meeting where we were told that we *should* file grievances. They said that this is the only way the league has to pick up on patterns of inappropriate behavior -- if no one ever reports the behavior it will never be addressed.

I've heard people toss around the threat of a grievance, but I've only heard of one actual grievance being filed before this one. That grievance was when one team allegedly violated an agreement they had made with the other team. Again, that's objective (although the proof may be difficult), not subjective.

beernutz · 06-18-2010, 02:37 PM

What are the consequences of getting a rudeness grievance upheld? Do you have to take etiquette lessons?

tennis tom · 06-18-2010, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beernutz

What are the consequences of getting a rudeness grievance upheld? Do you have to take etiquette lessons?

You have to open balls for six months.

06-18-2010, 02:55 PM

She wasn't rude. She was just bein sassy....

Steady Eddy · 06-18-2010, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larry10s

without knowing the details of what happened you cant draw any conclusions.
im always amazed how you get involved in drama situations

I'm closest to this POV. Sounds like there's more to this than her getting a reprimand just because she hits hard. And even if she hasn't been a problem in other matches, doesn't mean that she could not have been a problem in this match.

Unless you know otherwise, I wouldn't second guess the USTA. People leave things out in the re-telling. Recently, "a girl got punched in the face by a cop for jaywalking". No, it started with jaywalking, but she got punched for assaulting an officer, but that's not as much of an attention getter. Likewise her troubles might have started with her power play, which led to something else happening, (something she doesn't like to admit to). So she just said, "Well, they don't like it that I hit hard, and I got reprimanded by the USTA for it!" Whatever it truly is, it's 99.9% likely she deserved it so you'd do best by just letting it go.

dizzlmcwizzl · 06-18-2010, 03:27 PM

To be honest ... I think I would like a repremand from the USTA for something so pedestrian as rudeness. If there is no penalty or consequence it seems to me a formal letter of repremand would make for an excellent story to be told over beers after a match for many years to come.

Cindysphinx · 06-18-2010, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steady Eddy

I'm closest to this POV. Sounds like there's more to this than her getting a reprimand just because she hits hard. And even if she hasn't been a problem in other matches, doesn't mean that she could not have been a problem in this match.

Unless you know otherwise, I wouldn't second guess the USTA. People leave things out in the re-telling. Recently, "a girl got punched in the face by a cop for jaywalking". No, it started with jaywalking, but she got punched for assaulting an officer, but that's not as much of an attention getter. Likewise her troubles might have started with her power play, which led to something else happening, (something she doesn't like to admit to). So she just said, "Well, they don't like it that I hit hard, and I got reprimanded by the USTA for it!" Whatever it truly is, it's 99.9% likely she deserved it so you'd do best by just letting it go.

You're right, of course.

I guess I'm just kind of surprised that someone with relatively little experience with USTA play -- having spent all of her tennis time in the country club league -- would avail herself of the grievance process so readily, you know? I mean, most of us just shrug this stuff off, no matter how bad it is.

And come here and tell all on the Internet.

I think (but don't know for sure) that only captains can file a grievance. I'm not sure what I would say if my player wanted me to spend time on a rudeness grievance . . .

Topaz · 06-18-2010, 03:35 PM

*eh hem*

Um, I think I know who you're talking about. Had to look back to be sure. And I vaguely remember the match. Don't remember anything being an issue, actually. She hits hard, yes, I remember that...but absolutely nothing grievance worthy.

kendall22 · 06-18-2010, 08:42 PM

Grievance policies are enacted at the sectional and district levels. In mine, I think a "Communications Misconduct Policy" showed up some time ago. If done locally, I'm sure the policies and execution of said procedures vary wildly.

robyn · 06-19-2010, 05:58 AM

i didn't know you could get grievances for rudeness. seems like it could be abused alot.

Cruzer · 06-20-2010, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs

How exactly was she rude?

I think this is an issue for a lawsuit. While it is true that organizations can enforce their rules, there is also such a thing as fairness and non-arbitrary treatment.

And the USTA is also a government-supported organization.

Good suggestion. A hefty dollar judgement against her and maybe a few years in prison if she is found guilty. Let's clog up the legal system with more idiotic lawsuits.

People playing USTA tennis should know that there is a small percentage of jerks playing USTA tennis and the more you play the greater the chances you will eventually play against them. If someone is that appalled by what they encounter in USTA matches then stick to social tennis at the club.

gameboy · 06-20-2010, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steady Eddy

Recently, "a girl got punched in the face by a cop for jaywalking". No, it started with jaywalking, but she got punched for assaulting an officer, but that's not as much of an attention getter. .

Give me a friggin' break. "Assaulting and officer"??? Are you kidding me? She pushed him back when he tried to grab her friend. There was absolutely no reason for the officer to punch a GIRL IN THE FACE!

If a cop cannot arrest a 17 year old girl without punching her in the face, he should not be a cop.

06-18-2010, 07:14 AM	#1
Cindysphinx G.O.A.T. Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 14,082	A Rudeness Grievance? OK, this story is just plain weird. I will tell you that up front. I have a friend I see in fitness class. She is a member of a posh club, but this year she decided to play 3.5 USTA night league for the first time. Anyway, the other day I asked her how it was going. She said she probably wasn't going to play USTA anymore, especially given how a recent match had gone. She said that her opponent was really not nice and was very rude. I asked for details, but she was kind of vague. One thing she said was that the lady got upset when they questioned her line calls. I got the impression that the lady was impatient, aloof, curt, and according to my friend just kind of nasty. Then she told me the lady's name. It turns out the lady is one of my doubles partners. I played one 4.0 match with her, and when we were both 3.0s we played 2-3 3.5 matches together. Now, I wouldn't necessarily say her tennis style is to my liking (kind of a power player who struggles with consistency), but I had no problems at all with her personality toward me or her opponents. Two other TT posters have partnered with her, and so far as I know they didn't have problems either. Another TT poster played against her and mentioned the match on the board, but I can't for the life of me remember whether there were any rudeness issues. Well, get this. My friend filed a grievance against this lady! For rudeness, I guess. My friend said that the lady filed a response to the grievance, and in it she said something like, "I wonder if Serena Williams has grievances filed against her for being focused and hitting the ball hard." And get this: The league issued a reprimand to this lady! I don't get it. I have run across many opponents who played in a style I didn't appreciate. Everything from raining balls down on us rather than handing them to us, not making small talk, being sore losers, being argumentative, whatever. Never once did I consider filing a grievance. Maybe this lady's style wouldn't fly at a posh country club, but I'd be shocked to hear that it was truly inappropriate. Then again, maybe this is not the first grievance so the league is finally addressing it with her? Weird. So weird. I mean, if there was anything truly grievance-worthy, wouldn't my friend have come right out with it (like "She swore at us and hit balls at us whenever she disagreed with a call"). Should a grievance have to involve something a bit more concrete than this? Or should the league figure that if something is serious enough to make someone bother to file a grievance perhaps there is something to it? __________________ -- Random Error Generator, Version 4.0 -- Master Moonballer

06-18-2010, 08:09 AM	#3
Cindysphinx G.O.A.T. Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 14,082	Hey, I wasn't involved! I am totally innocent of any and all Drama in this one. __________________ -- Random Error Generator, Version 4.0 -- Master Moonballer

06-18-2010, 10:19 AM	#5
Cindysphinx G.O.A.T. Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 14,082	Ksteph, you're one of the TT posters who has partnered with this lady! Small world, eh? __________________ -- Random Error Generator, Version 4.0 -- Master Moonballer

06-18-2010, 01:51 PM	#9
Cindysphinx G.O.A.T. Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 14,082	Our local rules require sportsmanlike behavior and adherence to the Code and suchlike, of course. What surprises me is that I thought grievances were reserved for objective things, not subjective things. Like, you could have a grievance that a captain refused to adhere to a rule (insisting on defaulting line 1 instead of line 3). Or a player stalled to run out the clock in a timed match. Or a player lied about her experience for self-rating. I do recall some years back being at a captain's meeting where we were told that we should file grievances. They said that this is the only way the league has to pick up on patterns of inappropriate behavior -- if no one ever reports the behavior it will never be addressed. I've heard people toss around the threat of a grievance, but I've only heard of one actual grievance being filed before this one. That grievance was when one team allegedly violated an agreement they had made with the other team. Again, that's objective (although the proof may be difficult), not subjective. __________________ -- Random Error Generator, Version 4.0 -- Master Moonballer

06-18-2010, 02:37 PM	#10
beernutz Hall Of Fame Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: expanding my Ignore List Posts: 3,334	What are the consequences of getting a rudeness grievance upheld? Do you have to take etiquette lessons? __________________ I have come to the conclusion that people who respond to forum posts with "tl;dnr" should really be writing "add;dnr".