World Class Juniors

[krizzle]

What NTRP are world-class juniors at in the under 16 age group?

[scraps234]

most of them are proble 5.0

[justinmadison]

I am not sure what you mean by a "world class junior" under 16.


Nadal was the ninth player in the open era to win an ATP match before the age of 16. That would make him a 6.0+ at 16.

The top 10 USTA 14 and under juniors are 5.0

The top 10 USTA 16 and under juniors are 5.5+

[krizzle]

I meant like the top 10. How about juniors that will grow up and become about 80 in the world?

[willshot]

all depends but usually 5.0 -5.5

I witnessed a good 4.5 club player beat the crap out of a top 10 16 year old from texas. it was funny seeing the kid get all ****ed off.

[polski]

Based on the USTA's website, any "world class" player is a 7.0. It doesn't really specify anything for juniors because officially juniors cannot rate themselves.

However, being realistic I would assume that a 15 year old playing and winning matches at Kalamazoo last month would be able to hang with most 5.0 & 5.5's & probably win regularly.

If you're talking about a kid that will be top-80 in the world, that is a 7.0 by definition.

[krizzle]

Is there any hope for me?
I'm just barely 15. My coach rates me at around a 4.0. I played for half a year at the age of 6 or 7, and I picked tennis up seriously in November.
Stats on my strokes:
Forehand:
4.0-4.5
Backhand:
3.5
Movement:
5.0-5.5
First serve:
3.0
Second Serve:
2.5
Return of serve:
3.5-4.0
Volleys:
3.5-4.0
Before I told my coaches how long i've been playing, I made them guess. All three told me that most likely i've been playing almost 4 years.
Qualitative analysis on my strokes:
Consistent forehand with good power and directional control.
Shabby backhand that's sometimes "on" and more often than not, "off."
My serves need working on, because I rarely have access to courts outside of my tennis lessons.
I've got good tactics.
My fitness is good and hopefully improving all the time.
I've got access to a good wall.
I go to a gym.
I'm 5-5, about 150 pounds. 22% body fat. I'm aiming for 10% by March 1. Good agility, speed, and endurance.
For the next few months, I'll be practicing something like this:
Monday/Friday
Crossfit
School
Tennis 4-6 PM
Tuesday/Thursday
Crossfit
School
Hitting against a wall 4-6ish
Wednesday:
School
Tennis 4-6 PM
Saturday:
light hitting
Sunday:
Rest

Is it possible for me to become a pro who makes a good earning (net >150k) a year?

[Ventolin]

It's possible, but its gonna take many years of working your *** off.

Realistically, if you are extremely talented and practice like a maniac every single day you could be playing main draw futures at around 20-21, and challengers at around 23-24. I mean if you head straight to a full time tennis academy (for example) and dont leave there until the pros there tell you you're ready to start travelling to futures events and trying to qualify full time.

But challenger level players dont usually make more than 100k a year. If you manage to make it to the challenger level its a different ball game altogether to reach the main tour. You need to be physically gifted, in supreme shape physically, rock solid in every aspect of the game, and unbelievably focused, day-in, day-out.

You would almost certainly be classified as late bloomer. Its rare, but it happens. Look at Dustin Brown, Wayne Arthurs, Marc Giquel for example. On the othe end of the spectrum, a guy like Kristian Pless, who was no.1 in the world as a junior and was certainly pro level at 16 (good enough to hold an ATP ranking), never managed any solid years at the ATP level, spent most of his career stuck in the challengers.

Bottom line, if you're doing it hoping to make a good living for a young man, there are far easier ways to do it, and many ways that are more of a sure thing. If you're doing it because you love the game, then I say go right ahead, just dont let your education fall by the wayside, because its a gigantic risk.

Also, if you take a look at the rankings, many of the curent top 10 juniors are actually 16. Jason Kubler was no.1 in the juniors at 16 and got dominated by Ljubicic in the first round of the Aus Open this year.

[Wondertoy]

Have any of you people looked at the NTRP rating guide? It's all about a player's efficiency at strokes, spins, strategy, etc. It doesn't really scale playes on power, winning and heavy spin production that many of you want to grade players on.

[warmsurfing]

Originally Posted by justinmadison

I am not sure what you mean by a "world class junior" under 16.


Nadal was the ninth player in the open era to win an ATP match before the age of 16. That would make him a 6.0+ at 16.

The top 10 USTA 14 and under juniors are 5.0

The top 10 USTA 16 and under juniors are 5.5+

Hi,
When Nadal was 16,I wonder how did he get his ranking so high to get in the main draw of an ATP event?

[himynameisNIKE]

Originally Posted by warmsurfing

Hi,
When Nadal was 16,I wonder how did he get his ranking so high to get in the main draw of an ATP event?

because he was really ****ing good

[LeftyServe]

Originally Posted by warmsurfing

Hi,
When Nadal was 16,I wonder how did he get his ranking so high to get in the main draw of an ATP event?

Nadal played a few Futures events at 15 1/2, and then received a wild card into the Mallorca tournament just before his 16th birthday. This was at the time Mallorca had an ATP event. He was ranked 762 at the time. He played Futures and a few Challengers (all in Spain) for most of the year past that...Demonstrates the huge advantage aspiring players from Spain have because of the sheer number of pro events held in that country (practically a Futures event somewhere every week).

[warmsurfing]

Originally Posted by LeftyServe

Nadal played a few Futures events at 15 1/2, and then received a wild card into the Mallorca tournament just before his 16th birthday. This was at the time Mallorca had an ATP event. He was ranked 762 at the time. He played Futures and a few Challengers (all in Spain) for most of the year past that...Demonstrates the huge advantage aspiring players from Spain have because of the sheer number of pro events held in that country (practically a Futures event somewhere every week).

That explains everything !
If one lives in a country with very few pro events,he can just forget about it.
Then again,the US is so big,why has so few pro players ?

[get it in]

Originally Posted by warmsurfing

That explains everything !
If one lives in a country with very few pro events,he can just forget about it.
Then again,the US is so big,why has so few pro players ?

That's a complex answer. One big reason is because tennis is not as big in the US as baseball, football, and basketball. The reality is that you can make more money in minor league baseball than you could in minor league (futures) tennis- and you don't have to travel around the world most of the year. Granted, some people enjoy the travel. It's just very expensive to produce a pro tennis player. You can get a lot of training for free/low cost in baseball or football (think college scholarships) for sure. It doesn't have much to do with Americans not having talent or skills. It's just that the road to a pro tennis career is very long and fraught with uncertainty. That shouldn't deter anyone and for those truly interested, they should continue in it.
I'll finish with this: Andre Agassi's dad once said that if he could do it over again, he would have had Andre play baseball. We're all glad he didn't but think about the implications of that statement.

[chalkflewup]

Originally Posted by get it in

I'll finish with this: Andre Agassi's dad once said that if he could do it over again, he would have had Andre play baseball. We're all glad he didn't but think about the implications of that statement.

If Mike Agassi really did say that I find it sad. If "he" did it all over again... I was hoping he'd say, I'll let Andre decide what he wants to do. If Andre did it all over again, I wonder what path he'd really pick.

[TennisCoachFLA]

Originally Posted by chalkflewup

If Mike Agassi really did say that I find it sad. If "he" did it all over again... I was hoping he'd say, I'll let Andre decide what he wants to do. If Andre did it all over again, I wonder what path he'd really pick.

Agassi's dad has said that a few times. He said today it is so much more competitive with global players that the chances of making money in tennis is tiny compared to back when he decided to make Andre a player.

Here is one reference to his comments:

By Tom Perrotta...."In a recent conversation, Mike Agassi, Andre Agassi’s father, told me that he wouldn’t want his children to play tennis today. “I’d go after golf and baseball,” Agassi says. “Golf has longevity, and in baseball if you lose, you aren’t the loser. The team loses.”"

But he does not sound like he would change a thing about his methods....he would have had Andre hitting and fielding 2500 baseballs a day.

[Tennis_Stringman]

I heard Mike Agassi speak at the Easter Bowl some years ago. Yes he did mention golf as the preferred route as the career is longer. In his book he said he trained Agassi to S&V like the previous great and told Nick that he was disappointed that Andre never came in anymore and wanted him to attack the net more.

Let me say this, no one in his (rational) mind would choose men's Pro tennis as a pro sport. It's too damn expensive, no safety net if you get injured, and too competitive worldwide. Choose a sport that is sponsored and paid for by the school system like baseball, basketball or football. Golf is like tennis but at least you have an idea when you get to go home unlike tennis where you have to pay exhorbitant change fees when you bomb out.

[wbdad]

Pro tennis is a tough gig period. Nowdays, a 150 ranked player can barely make a living. If you get injured, your screwed. If you have true passion for the game and have the talent, athletic abilities than i say go for it.

[tennisdad65]

Originally Posted by wbdad

Pro tennis is a tough gig period. Nowdays, a 150 ranked player can barely make a living. If you get injured, your screwed. If you have true passion for the game and have the talent, athletic abilities than i say go for it.

that's especially true for the US, many European and other 'richer' nations. I think $ 50-100K net a year is still a whole lot for someone in China/India/Africa..

[jdawgg]

Originally Posted by wbdad

Pro tennis is a tough gig period. Nowdays, a 150 ranked player can barely make a living. If you get injured, your screwed. If you have true passion for the game and have the talent, athletic abilities than i say go for it.

Just think how amazingly good at something you have to be to be 150th in the world at anything... the 150th best player at baseball/football/soccer is probably making millions