2 piece required?

[dgdawg]

O.K...so.....
What do all you experienced stringers do with customers frames, when a 2 piece is required?
1-follow Stringers Digest to the letter.... (2 piece)
2-String 1 piece and do ATW, stringing X's H to T? (Head, etc...)
Some patterns say string X's T to H. I just can't bring myself to do that.

EDIT---__________________________________________________ ________________________________________

I guess my REAL question is:
Are professionals stringing one pcs, when 2 pcs is specified, and just stringing ATW. (H to T)
I always string 1 piece when instructions permit, and string ATW when patterns permit T to H X's.

[jim e]

Originally Posted by dgdawg

O.K...so.....
What do all you experienced stringers do with customers frames, when a 2 piece is required?
1-follow Stringers Digest to the letter.... (2 piece)
2-String 1 piece and do ATW, stringing X's H to T? (Head, etc...)
Some patterns say string X's T to H. I just can't bring myself to do that.

I usually follow "The Stringers Digest".If 2 pc. only listed,I string as 2 pc.
With the # of hybrid jobs, Head specific to string as 2 pc only, and I string a lot of nat. gut, and I prefer to string gut as 2 pc,and to make things consistant with my stringing most of my stringing is 2 pc.
I agree, I string most all H to T. especially since most of my stringing is 2 pc.
Every so often I will string an ATW pattern, just to keep in practice of stringing it, but for the most part, stringing is 2 pc for me, unless the racquet is a natural to string as 1 pc. and no hybrid.

[aussie]

I always (well mostly) string 2 piece and check out the Klipper website for the pattern (also the Silent Partner website too). Always string crosses top to bottom if at all possible.

[MuscleWeave]

Delete post.

[Irvin]

^^ http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=354535

Irvin

[onefromcov]

My Dunlop MW 200G 95 takes a one piece, crosses bottom to top pattern. Could you make a video on how to do that?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TEHKRPtx-g

[Irvin]

^^ 'onefromcov' something tells me that is not what he is looking for

Irvin

[Technatic]

The major question in this matter is: For what reason do racquet manufacturers demand 2 piece stringing??
IMO that has to do with bad experiences on with racquets strung from throat to head on machines with indirect (outside) mounting.

The head of the racquet is weaker at the head side than the throat. This means that the pressure on the outside supports at the head side is higher than at the throat.
It is important to lower this pressure as soon as possible and this is done by entering the cross strings form the head, because the crosses pull the frame away from the support.

When the crosses are entered from throat to head the racquet narrows from the throat upwards. Because the deformation of the frame is already smaller at the throatside this enlarges the “conflict” between the lower and the upper part of the racquet head.
This means that the stress in the racquet is “pushed upwards” resulting in higher pressure on the supports at the head side.

I string on a Stringway 5 point direct system and always go from throat to head when the mains end at the throat, never a problem at all!

The reason for this is that there are no outside support that can cause a “point-load” and the frame can divide the pressure gradually over the hole length.

IMO
Going around the world is always as good as 4 knots for the racquet, there is no mechanical difference.
So no reason to drop the warranty.

[dgdawg]

Originally Posted by Technatic

The major question in this matter is: For what reason do racquet manufacturers demand 2 piece stringing??
IMO that has to do with bad experiences on with racquets strung from throat to head on machines with indirect (outside) mounting.

The head of the racquet is weaker at the head side than the throat. This means that the pressure on the outside supports at the head side is higher than at the throat.
It is important to lower this pressure as soon as possible and this is done by entering the cross strings form the head, because the crosses pull the frame away from the support.

When the crosses are entered from throat to head the racquet narrows from the throat upwards. Because the deformation of the frame is already smaller at the throatside this enlarges the “conflict” between the lower and the upper part of the racquet head.
This means that the stress in the racquet is “pushed upwards” resulting in higher pressure on the supports at the head side.

I string on a Stringway 5 point direct system and always go from throat to head when the mains end at the throat, never a problem at all!

The reason for this is that there are no outside support that can cause a “point-load” and the frame can divide the pressure gradually over the hole length.

IMO
Going around the world is always as good as 4 knots for the racquet, there is no mechanical difference.
So no reason to drop the warranty.

Hmmm...I'm not quite sure how to interpret this...
although this doesn't answer my OP question of "what do experienced stringers do when 2 piece is required", it does give me some insight.
I'm pretty sure Head, Yonex and other "2 piece required" manufactured were tired of their frames being caved in on machines with indirect (outside) mounting.
I'm not sure how this could be called indirect, as the frame is "physically" secured, in most cases, in 6 places.
With 99% of machines on the planet (maybe a little less) having indirect (outside) mounting, it has to be a conspiracy that's industry driven.
The fact that the yoke and handle on a frame add stability and structural integrity to a frame, and the fact that the 1st 2 or 3 X's add stability to the H have nothing to do with it.
The motive for my question is: if you string a frame 1 pcs (using ATW) when the manufacturer "requires" 2 pcs, will the warranty be viod?

When I first started stringing, my wife's Wilson snapped. We were hitting close to the net "getting loose" and I heard a crack. Her frame just snapped.
I strung that frame T to H, as specified and had a 2 pnt (neos, klippermate) type mounting system on the machine I had at the time.
Wilson replaced the racquet but I never strung a frame T to H again.
I'm quite certain the industry has it all wrong..........
I'm out

[kkm]

Originally Posted by dgdawg

Hmmm...I'm not quite sure how to interpret this...
although this doesn't answer my OP question of "what do experienced stringers do when 2 piece is required", it does give me some insight.
I'm pretty sure Head, Yonex and other "2 piece required" manufactured were tired of their frames being caved in on machines with indirect (outside) mounting.
I'm not sure how this could be called indirect, as the frame is "physically" secured, in most cases, in 6 places.
With 99% of machines on the planet (maybe a little less) having indirect (outside) mounting, it has to be a conspiracy that's industry driven.
The fact that the yoke and handle on a frame add stability and structural integrity to a frame, and the fact that the 1st 2 or 3 X's add stability to the H have nothing to do with it.
The motive for my question is: if you string a frame 1 pcs (using ATW) when the manufacturer "requires" 2 pcs, will the warranty be viod?

When I first started stringing, my wife's Wilson snapped. We were hitting close to the net "getting loose" and I heard a crack. Her frame just snapped.
I strung that frame T to H, as specified and had a 2 pnt (neos, klippermate) type mounting system on the machine I had at the time.
Wilson replaced the racquet but I never strung a frame T to H again.
I'm quite certain the industry has it all wrong..........
I'm out

2-piece was probably manufacturers getting tired of people stringing their racquets T to H on machines with poor support, not good 6-point support, but poor 2-point support. 2-point support was less bad for strong racquets from before but not good for many of the thin wall modern racquets.
Stringway is not the only support system acceptable for stringing. Other machine supports work well, and where is the stringer's accountability for a good result? ATW was used to maintain racquet shape when using poor 2-point support, so it is possible to make a good result with creativity. Use H adapter for racquets with flexible hoop, example Head, also for Yonex because of the particular shape.

[dgdawg]

Originally Posted by kkm

2-piece was probably manufacturers getting tired of people stringing their racquets T to H on machines with poor support, not good 6-point support, but poor 2-point support. 2-point support was less bad for strong racquets from before but not good for many of the thin wall modern racquets.
Stringway is not the only support system acceptable for stringing. Other machine supports work well, and where is the stringer's accountability for a good result? ATW was used to maintain racquet shape when using poor 2-point support, so it is possible to make a good result with creativity. Use H adapter for racquets with flexible hoop, example Head, also for Yonex because of the particular shape.

Great post, kkm.
IMO...you're right on. "Back in the day" when frames were made from railroad track, machines didn't need as good a mounting system.
As I stated, there's a reason most racks are 6 pnt these days.
I have yet to see a stringway in a Tier 1 or Tier 2 stringing room. (not that I've ever been IN one of these rooms. I hope to be one day, tho)
I NEVER string T to H. I just think it's not good for the frame.
I really don't care if the instructions permit it, I DON'T do it. This is MY OPINION and OPTION.

All I am really trying to ascertain is:
Will stringing one piece VOID WARRANTY. I guess I should have been more clear in my OP.
I suppost the ONLY way to find this out is to contact the manufacturer directly.
Lets put this one to bed.........

[kkm]

Originally Posted by dgdawg

Great post, kkm.
IMO...you're right on. "Back in the day" when frames were made from railroad track, machines didn't need as good a mounting system.
As I stated, there's a reason most racks are 6 pnt these days.
I have yet to see a stringway in a Tier 1 or Tier 2 stringing room. (not that I've ever been IN one of these rooms. I hope to be one day, tho)
I NEVER string T to H. I just think it's not good for the frame.
I really don't care if the instructions permit it, I DON'T do it. This is MY OPINION and OPTION.

All I am really trying to ascertain is:
Will stringing one piece VOID WARRANTY. I guess I should have been more clear in my OP.
I suppost the ONLY way to find this out is to contact the manufacturer directly.
Lets put this one to bed.........

Yes I think it is best to check with each manufacturer if stringing one piece for example atw would void the warranty or if this would be fine since the crosses would go from H to T.

[MuscleWeave]

dgdawg

Sorry I hijacked your thread.

MW

[dgdawg]

Originally Posted by MuscleWeave

dgdawg

Sorry I hijacked your thread.

MW

No sweat, bro!!

[Lakers4Life]

I do a two piece if it's stated in the stringers digest or manufacturer's site. Even if it's not a hybrid.

Before I dreaded doing a two-piece job, because did not have a starting clamp at the time. Now it's not that big of a hassle.

[Technatic]

I'm not sure how this could be called indirect, as the frame is "physically" secured, in most cases, in 6 places.
With 99% of machines on the planet (maybe a little less) having indirect (outside) mounting, it has to be a conspiracy that's industry driven.

2-piece was probably manufacturers getting tired of people stringing their racquets T to H on machines with poor support, not good 6-point support, but poor 2-point support. 2-point support was less bad for strong racquets from before but not good for many of the thin wall modern racquets.

“Indirect mounting” means that the mounting system does not support the racquet in the direction of the maximum load during stringing;

* The worst moment for the racquet occurs when all the main strings are tensioned. The strings pull the racquet head inwards.
- On a direct support system the supports work against the inside of the racquet and push the racquet outwards where the main strings pull it inwards.

- When the racquet gets shorter it gets wider also.
On an outside (6 point) mounting system the supports work on the outside preventing the racquet from getting wider.
Because the widening of the head is not the major deformation this is called indirect.

The problem with this is that the forces of the outside supports have to be transferred to the position of the main strings and this causes stress in the racquet material.

The funny thing is that 6 point mounting systems which are not so “good” (less stiff) are better for the racquet because the load on the supports is lower.

* Why do 90 % of the machines have indirect mounting systems??
I do not understand at all, it must be “go with the flow” and Babolat does it so all the others follow.

You never hear of any problems on very simple direct systems like on the Ektelon.(3 point). Even a cheap machine like the Klippermate works well.

There are quite some discussions about racquets getting stuck on 6 points systems.

When I first started stringing, my wife's Wilson snapped. We were hitting close to the net "getting loose" and I heard a crack. Her frame just snapped.
I strung that frame T to H, as specified and had a 2 pnt (neos, klippermate) type mounting system on the machine I had at the time.
Wilson replaced the racquet but I never strung a frame T to H again.

Could it be that the tension on the crosses has been too high? The Klippermate does not have the problem of high forces of the outside supports.

[Irvin]

Originally Posted by Technatic

“Indirect mounting” means that the mounting system does not support the racquet in the direction of the maximum load during stringing;

* The worst moment for the racquet occurs when all the main strings are tensioned. The strings pull the racquet head inwards.
- On a direct support system the supports work against the inside of the racquet and push the racquet outwards where the main strings pull it inwards.

- When the racquet gets shorter it gets wider also...

On my 6 point machine the racket does not get shorter unless I do not have the 6 and 12 o'clock supports adjusted properly. BUT, I have to admit the more I get away from the center mains the sides do tend to bulge out. I know this because the side supports get very tight as I start stringing the outside mains but the side supports do well to maintain the original shape of the racket by applying force in the opposite direction of the deformation.

If a 6 point machine is indirect mounting (as you and many others proclaim, and indirect mounting does not support the racket in the direction of the load) how do you explain the 6 and 12 o'clock supports preventing the racket from getting shorter and the outside supports preventing the racket from getting wider? Seems to me like if you wanted to support the racket in the opposite direction of the load you would put the 6 and 12 o'clock supports on the outside of the frame and the outside supports on the inside.

FYI - http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=260407

I think direct and indirect mounting is a bunch of some marketeer's mumbo jumbo anyway. If I were stringing a badminton racket on a 6 point tennis stringer (here the side supports could be around 3 and 9 oclock and deform the racket into an hour glass) I can see where it would make a lot of difference though but I don't string badminton rackets.

Irvin

[dgdawg]

Originally Posted by Technatic

“Indirect mounting” means that the mounting system does not support the racquet in the direction of the maximum load during stringing;

* The worst moment for the racquet occurs when all the main strings are tensioned. The strings pull the racquet head inwards.
- On a direct support system the supports work against the inside of the racquet and push the racquet outwards where the main strings pull it inwards.

- When the racquet gets shorter it gets wider also.
On an outside (6 point) mounting system the supports work on the outside preventing the racquet from getting wider.
Because the widening of the head is not the major deformation this is called indirect.

The problem with this is that the forces of the outside supports have to be transferred to the position of the main strings and this causes stress in the racquet material.

The funny thing is that 6 point mounting systems which are not so “good” (less stiff) are better for the racquet because the load on the supports is lower.

* Why do 90 % of the machines have indirect mounting systems??
I do not understand at all, it must be “go with the flow” and Babolat does it so all the others follow.

You never hear of any problems on very simple direct systems like on the Ektelon.(3 point). Even a cheap machine like the Klippermate works well.

There are quite some discussions about racquets getting stuck on 6 points systems.



Could it be that the tension on the crosses has been too high? The Klippermate does not have the problem of high forces of the outside supports.

Hmmm....
By reading this, one would have to conclude: the entire industry is WHACK!!!!!!
I have no other choice than to sell my Star 5. Actually, after reading this post, I'm thinking it's such a POS, I should probably just give it away.
I got nothing.
I'm gonna call my boy Mark @ Alpha and see if he'll trade me, "even up" for a stringway.......

Incidentally....my wife's Wilson frame that cracked.......I strung it on the 1st machine I owned. A machine with a "direct" mounting system.

See ya peeps!!!
I'm out

[Irvin]

^^ 'dgdawg' I would not just give my machine away but it you need my address let me know. LOL

These terms are confusing I agree but they are acknowledged by the industry. It all boils down to which support system is best and that argument could go on forever and a day.

Back to your original question. If it is required by the manufacturer do it unless the owner of the racket requests something different. Also just because the manufacturer reccomends one way does not mean it must be strung that one certain way. Take Babolat for instance, I contacted them and was told ALL their rackets should be strung two piece but if you look on their website they give you the option of stringing one piece or two piece on most rackets. And Prince, all their newer rackets have a short side and a long side which infers one piece but two piece is fine too. Price says ALL their racket's crosses must be strung top down but I contacted them too and 2 piece 50/50 is ok.

Irvin

[bcart1991]

Just to interject...

I use a Klippermate (two-point mounting), have used it since '98.
I have been using the same frame since '01-ish.
I string one-piece 90% of the time.
I string throat-to-head 90% of the time.
I have yet to experience the first problem with any of my frames using this method.