PV Audio's Playtest Thread

[Ramon]

Originally Posted by RetroSpin

My experience is a bit different. I played a lot competitively as a 4.5. When I played 5.0's, the thing that always got me was the weight of shot, that and the added pop or kick on serves. I would find myself getting pushed around as points unfolded.

Of course, I am an oldtimer and had consistency drilled into me. Now, every 4.5 is probably trying to hit the cover off the ball. When they learn to keep it in play most of the time, they become 5.0's.

One of the great things about this sport is that there are so many styles. Obviously, your style is based on consistency and your barrier to moving up is power.

I'm the opposite. Against a top 4.5, I'm usually the agressor but I'll lose by inconsistency and mistakes. Most 5.0's don't hit any harder than I do, but they keep it in and generally place it where they want.

Against certain types of players, I'll have a better chance of winning if I just keep the ball in, but playing that way won't really help me improve. I've been telling myself to avoid the temptation of taking short-term wins and just play the kind of game that will take me to the next level.

[TenFanLA]

Originally Posted by Ramon

One of the great things about this sport is that there are so many styles. Obviously, your style is based on consistency and your barrier to moving up is power.

I'm the opposite. Against a top 4.5, I'm usually the agressor but I'll lose by inconsistency and mistakes. Most 5.0's don't hit any harder than I do, but they keep it in and generally place it where they want.

Against certain types of players, I'll have a better chance of winning if I just keep the ball in, but playing that way won't really help me improve. I've been telling myself to avoid the temptation of taking short-term wins and just play the kind of game that will take me to the next level.

I played in this advanced league a year ago and there were 2 guys who could bomb their 1st serves, kicked the 2nd over opponents' heads, blast away FH's and BH's with heavy topspin. They were killing legit 4.5's by 6-1, 6-1, 6-0, 6-2. I found out one of them was ranked in the state and the other is ex-D1. However neither of them could beat this one guy who didn't have any mass destruction weapons except that he would return EVERYTHING and place the shots in uncomfortable places. (Un)fortunately, I never got to play him but I understand that he used to play on the tour, mostly on clay.

[RetroSpin]

Two things have always impressed me about the rating system. One, you can watch someone hit a couple of balls and have a pretty accurate idea of their rating. I know PV may disagreee with this, since he sees the rating system as a bit vague, but to me it seems pretty clear cut. You watch a guy's swing, his footwork, his preparation, etc and you just know. There is a qualitative difference in the way the ball leaves a 5.0's stick compared to a 4.5. With a 5.5 and above, you don't even need to watch. You can hear the difference.

The other thing that impresses me is how vast the gulf between levels is. You wouldn't think there would be that big a difference between a 4.0 and a 4.5, for example. Both are decent club-level players, but the 4.5 can beat the 4.0 without ever breaking a sweat or really even going for a shot.

[pvaudio]

No no, you misunderstand me. I am talking about the physical descriptions, not the system itself. It's very easy, I agree, to tell what level a player is by watching (up to 5.0 at least, beyond that, I just call them open level). However, the description of a 5.0 player just doesn't correlate to what you see on the court:

5.0 Has good shot anticipation and frequently has an outstanding shot or exceptional consistency around which a game may be structured. Can regularly hit winners or force errors off of short balls and can put away volleys, can successfully execute lobs, drop shots, half volleys and overhead smashes and has good depth and spin on most second serves.

My serve is my best asset, and I construct my game around it. Therefore, I say I have an outstanding shot which my game is based around. I do regularly hit winners and can force errors by changing up the spin on the ball, or the depth. Easy. I can also lob, smash and drop shot quite effectively. Half-volley is a very special/rare shot, so I'm not sure how to comment there. I also think I have excellent depth and spin on all of my second serves. In fact, while the ace count is lower, I tend to draw a lot of UEs off my second serve because it comes in with good pace, but so much action that it moves around. When I play against older players or in doubles, I only hit second serves and just move it around the box. The power of my 1st isn't necessary to get a short reply or pop up a ball that my partner can put away.

I can sit here and write that description of my game easily without any intended arrogance. Yet, I am a 4.0 player who can hang with a 4.5 if need be. I'm not even within rational thought of playing against a 5.0, much less winning more than a game or few on my serve. That's my beef: I can rationalize my game to the description, but in reality, what they mean is that the player has pretty much mastered all of his shots and all that's missing is extra consistency or power.

5.5 Has developed power and/or consistency as a major weapon. Can vary strategies and styles of play in a competitive situation and hit dependable shots in a stress situation.

This is the most vague of them all. At 5.5, they've got it all. From there on up, it just depends on how much greater you are than the next guy with your weapon, consistency, footwork, etc. Make no doubt: in any given category, you're still going to wipe the floor with 95% of people. It's just differentiating between those last 5% which lets you decide what to call yourself. Let me put it like this: I don't consider anyone at 5.0 or higher an amateur or club player. They're either a teaching pro, former pro or former college player. Whether or not they're working in the tennis "industry" is irrelevant.

[Torres]

The NTRP descriptions are meaningless. The self-rate stuff is a complete waste of time. The only way you can properly discern your NTRP rating is to work your way through the USTA leagues.

[mikeler]

Originally Posted by RetroSpin

Two things have always impressed me about the rating system. One, you can watch someone hit a couple of balls and have a pretty accurate idea of their rating. I know PV may disagreee with this, since he sees the rating system as a bit vague, but to me it seems pretty clear cut. You watch a guy's swing, his footwork, his preparation, etc and you just know. There is a qualitative difference in the way the ball leaves a 5.0's stick compared to a 4.5. With a 5.5 and above, you don't even need to watch. You can hear the difference.

The other thing that impresses me is how vast the gulf between levels is. You wouldn't think there would be that big a difference between a 4.0 and a 4.5, for example. Both are decent club-level players, but the 4.5 can beat the 4.0 without ever breaking a sweat or really even going for a shot.

I don't think this is true in all cases. I've seen 2 guys warm up where I'd swear one was definitely going to win only to get crushed.

[pvaudio]

I have also noticed that the best players show the least "ability" in warm up. I think it's because they've become so finely honed that it literally is a warm up for them rather than a stroke practice session like it is for the lesser opponent. Classic examples: players who bomb overheads during warm up vs those who simply work on their footwork, positioning and controlling the shot to return it directly to their opponent for them to pop up another easy practice lob. The other is the player who bombs their serve during warm up while the other player will simply warm up at 35-50% or practice their second serve instead.

[pvaudio]

And I agree about the "gulf". The step between a 3.5 anda 4.0 really is just consistency and nothing more. 4.0 to 4.5 is being able to actually set up points rather than just play them as they occur. 4.5 to 5.0 is years of experience. You don't see players moving up from 4.5 to 5.0 because by the time you're at that level, you simply do not have the time, skills or age to improve to open level play.

[Up&comer]

Originally Posted by pvaudio

I have also noticed that the best players show the least "ability" in warm up. I think it's because they've become so finely honed that it literally is a warm up for them rather than a stroke practice session like it is for the lesser opponent. Classic examples: players who bomb overheads during warm up vs those who simply work on their footwork, positioning and controlling the shot to return it directly to their opponent for them to pop up another easy practice lob. The other is the player who bombs their serve during warm up while the other player will simply warm up at 35-50% or practice their second serve instead.

Completely the case in junior tennis.

[polytheist]

Originally Posted by pvaudio

Spot on. What hybrid were you using? I've converted too many people locally to WhisperTouch, so it's becoming a bit of an issue for me to use it myself aka pure money lost. I think I'm going to have to switch back to poly and multis.

Tonic 16 / Co-Focus 1.18 58/52
Tonic 16 / Scorpion 1.22 56/50
Tough Gut / Scorpion 1.22 54/50

I'll probably up the Co-Focus to 54 next time around.

[pvaudio]

It's sad; I will miss the days of natural gut, but alas, it's too expensive with customers using my string of choice. I'm thinking B5E/ThunderBlast to start with since mikeler knows his stuff.

[RetroSpin]

Originally Posted by pvaudio

No no, you misunderstand me. I am talking about the physical descriptions, not the system itself. It's very easy, I agree, to tell what level a player is by watching (up to 5.0 at least, beyond that, I just call them open level). However, the description of a 5.0 player just doesn't correlate to what you see on the court:



My serve is my best asset, and I construct my game around it. Therefore, I say I have an outstanding shot which my game is based around. I do regularly hit winners and can force errors by changing up the spin on the ball, or the depth. Easy. I can also lob, smash and drop shot quite effectively. Half-volley is a very special/rare shot, so I'm not sure how to comment there. I also think I have excellent depth and spin on all of my second serves. In fact, while the ace count is lower, I tend to draw a lot of UEs off my second serve because it comes in with good pace, but so much action that it moves around. When I play against older players or in doubles, I only hit second serves and just move it around the box. The power of my 1st isn't necessary to get a short reply or pop up a ball that my partner can put away.

I can sit here and write that description of my game easily without any intended arrogance. Yet, I am a 4.0 player who can hang with a 4.5 if need be. I'm not even within rational thought of playing against a 5.0, much less winning more than a game or few on my serve. That's my beef: I can rationalize my game to the description, but in reality, what they mean is that the player has pretty much mastered all of his shots and all that's missing is extra consistency or power.


This is the most vague of them all. At 5.5, they've got it all. From there on up, it just depends on how much greater you are than the next guy with your weapon, consistency, footwork, etc. Make no doubt: in any given category, you're still going to wipe the floor with 95% of people. It's just differentiating between those last 5% which lets you decide what to call yourself. Let me put it like this: I don't consider anyone at 5.0 or higher an amateur or club player. They're either a teaching pro, former pro or former college player. Whether or not they're working in the tennis "industry" is irrelevant.

Yes, the descriptions are somewhat subjective, but you know it when you see it.

[Torres]

Originally Posted by polytheist

Tonic 16 / Co-Focus 1.18 58/52
Tonic 16 / Scorpion 1.22 56/50
Tough Gut / Scorpion 1.22 54/50

I'll probably up the Co-Focus to 54 next time around.

Did you prefer the Co-Focus or the Scorpion? And for what reasons? Just curious.

[polytheist]

(Tonic16/poly)

Co-Focus - I can hit the crap out of the ball and for some reason it stays in. It takes me to a whole new level. Best feel so far for poly crosses. Consistent behavior. My current fave.

Scorpion - Makes me the best at my current level. I can aim for the lines. Sick accuracy. Not the best feel, but who cares when you can paint the lines.

B5E - hated the feel, but loved the results. Almost as accurate as Scorpion. I can't miss with this string, but it feels just alien in my hand.

[mikeler]

Originally Posted by pvaudio

It's sad; I will miss the days of natural gut, but alas, it's too expensive with customers using my string of choice. I'm thinking B5E/ThunderBlast to start with since mikeler knows his stuff.

I would live for you to try it and tell us about it. My B5E/gut setup is about to go (I think). Probably will go back to full multi mode for this winter to make sure the old elbow stays healthy. Next few days highs in the 80s.

[Up&comer]

Originally Posted by mikeler

I would live for you to try it and tell us about it. My B5E/gut setup is about to go (I think). Probably will go back to full multi mode for this winter to make sure the old elbow stays healthy. Next few days highs in the 80s.

You'll be surprised how long it lasts compared to a multi.

[mikeler]

Originally Posted by Up&comer

You'll be surprised how long it lasts compared to a multi.

2.5 more sets today and it looks terrible but is still hanging in there.

[Up&comer]

Originally Posted by mikeler

2.5 more sets today and it looks terrible but is still hanging in there.

Has it outlasted a multi cross for you?

[TaihtDuhShaat]

Originally Posted by polytheist

(Tonic16/poly)

Co-Focus - I can hit the crap out of the ball and for some reason it stays in. It takes me to a whole new level. Best feel so far for poly crosses. Consistent behavior. My current fave.

Scorpion - Makes me the best at my current level. I can aim for the lines. Sick accuracy. Not the best feel, but who cares when you can paint the lines.

B5E - hated the feel, but loved the results. Almost as accurate as Scorpion. I can't miss with this string, but it feels just alien in my hand.

Agree about the B5E, I had to change the way I like to play to be successful on it. I had to back off the swing speed on offensive and swing harder on defense. I like to play the opposite.

I'm still loving the silverstring crosses, and am looking forward to trying scorpion.

[mikeler]

Originally Posted by Up&comer

Has it outlasted a multi cross for you?

Hard to say, I mostly used that setup against the softer hitters. I think I had about 12 hours of match play on it. The gut was in seriously bad shape but perhaps it could have held on longer. When I cut it out, I applied hardly any pressure and it just snapped. Full Genesis Thunder Blast up next.