Serve Doctor's Spring-loaded technique...

[Ross K]

Came across this yesterday, courtesy of Pat Dougherty (I know he's a massive figure in the game, worked with Bolletieri, etc.) But what do you serve-meisters reckon?

Personally, I like how he describes the technique/concept (a spring that's loaded, the archer's bow stuff makes perfect sense coming from Pat, etc), as well as the seemingly simple yet effective mechanics. Er, the bit about how many don't store enough energy during their motion certainly chimed with me . I want to try that back-foot pull in - raise arch very high - toes into the ground thing (that's more pronounced and vertical than what I usually do.) I love how he describes that with this technique, the server needs to feel the serve and not think in terms of how it looks visually. And generally I really liked the fluidity and snap in the girl's motion.

Anyone have a view?... "Spring-loaded technique?"... I, for one, might very well be giving it a go later today.

Thx,

R.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixx-MCC7D88

[BobFL]

That serve is so Roddick-ish Btw, The girl has a beautiful serve motion!

[Netspirit]

I understand that it is a simplification aimed at teaching players how to stretch their bodies to accumulate and release energy.

In what aspects is it worse than the "real" serve? Why does not everyone serve like this, where is the loss?

[SystemicAnomaly]

Since I discovered this (about a year and a half ago), this has become one of my favorite serving styles. I am comfortable with quite a few styles - platform (wide), narrow platform (like Roddick), and pinpoint (including this spring-loaded variation of the pinpoint). Also feel at ease with a full (Sampras style) takeback, an abbreviated takeback or a hybrid takeback. Also: High toss, low toss, knee bend after ball release, knee bend while tossing arm rises, etc.

Of all these variations, the one that I use most often is a slight variation of the Serve Doctor's spring-loaded serve (as seen in his video). Altho' I use it quite a bit myself, I've only taught is to a few students.

Originally Posted by BobFL

That serve is so Roddick-ish Btw, The girl has a beautiful serve motion!

Except for the variation on his abbreviated takeback, what makes you say the Serve Doctor's spring-loaded serve is Roddick-esque (or Roddick-ish)? I don't really see it. The stance and right hip (and foot) is quite different. Due to this difference, the knee action is somewhat different. I do not believe that the girl in the video pulls her head down as early as Roddick does either. Any other similarities that might exist are probably common to all elite servers.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by Ross K

Came across this yesterday, courtesy of Pat Dougherty (I know he's a massive figure in the game, worked with Bolletieri, etc.) But what do you serve-meisters reckon?

Personally, I like how he describes the technique/concept (a spring that's loaded, the archer's bow stuff makes perfect sense coming from Pat, etc), as well as the seemingly simple yet effective mechanics. Er, the bit about how many don't store enough energy during their motion certainly chimed with me . I want to try that back-foot pull in - raise arch very high - toes into the ground thing (that's more pronounced and vertical than what I usually do.) I love how he describes that with this technique, the server needs to feel the serve and not think in terms of how it looks visually. And generally I really liked the fluidity and snap in the girl's motion.

Anyone have a view?... "Spring-loaded technique?"... I, for one, might very well be giving it a go later today.

Thx,

R.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixx-MCC7D88

He makes some good points, but, his explanation is more complicated than it needs to be. And the wind-up of the right arm is just silly and wastes the opportunity to develop timing, tempo and momentum.

[dozu]

i actually started serving this way a few days ago.... due to my bad left knee I need most of the push off from the right foot, so the front part of the right foot (instead of just the tip of the toe in video) is on the ground.

does feel like I can get more rotation out of this motion.

[jackson vile]

Tossing off the front foot? I wonder what that will do to accuracy and consistency.

[dozu]

^^^ if you look at the girl's motion, there is a slight rocking forward.... so there is still a little bit of weight shift.

[fuzz nation]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

He makes some good points, but, his explanation is more complicated than it needs to be. And the wind-up of the right arm is just silly and wastes the opportunity to develop timing, tempo and momentum.

Although the young slugger-ette in the video gets to a good trophy position, her ready position where she begins moving her racquet toward her release point (just ahead of the "drop and fire" up to the ball) has the racquet almost tucked in at her hip. It looks to be well ahead of the actual trophy pose. To my eye, she's kind of getting away with this extended wind-up and her motion is only just on time to the ball.

I'd simply want to encourage her to get the racquet up behind her a little earlier and pause it up there instead of down below her shoulder.

[Stroke]

This spring loaded technique being taught by Pat in this video is just a VERY abbreviated lesson on the "prefered serve doctor technique" he advocates in his very good instructional video, "Serve MPH's". The young lady demonstrating the serve is also featured in Serve MPH's. He calls it a very efficient serve technique, which I agree with, even more so after seeing his entire Serve MPH instructional video, which I feel is a nice improvement over his still very good Sonic Serve video. Next up for Pat is "Serve RPM's, which he very briefly descibes at the end of the youtube video.

[Ross K]

Had fun trying this out for ages today. Hard to tell how effective it is on just this relative short time trying to get familiar with it. However, it did feel like there was a bit more going on, it was a bit more dynamic, and indeed 'spring'-like, if a little inconsistent. The big problem I had today was the impact this all had on raising the racket arm/timing - I found I was instinctively getting the racktet hand/arm raised too quickly. Anyhow, I think I'll persist with it and see if any notable improvements do occur.

R.

[Ross K]

tricky,

If you're reading this by any chance, would love to hear your thoughts re Serve Dr's Spring-loaded technique.

As I said, my long session yesterday playing around with this did appear to bring some positive results, ie, I think I was getting a bit more of that correct energy hold/release or coil/uncoil and then snap (though a glitch immediately showed up then with my takeback/dropping the racket head/pronate into ball timing.)

Q. how highly do you regard this? As ever with these things, I just like the simple concept behind it and the simple way Pat taught it.

Thx,

R.

[SystemicAnomaly]

^ Not seen tricky around these parts for the past 4 months or so. Did come across a couple of mentions of Dougherty from him:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=4538597
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=4914140
.

[NLBwell]

Originally Posted by fuzz nation

Although the young slugger-ette in the video gets to a good trophy position, her ready position where she begins moving her racquet toward her release point (just ahead of the "drop and fire" up to the ball) has the racquet almost tucked in at her hip. It looks to be well ahead of the actual trophy pose. To my eye, she's kind of getting away with this extended wind-up and her motion is only just on time to the ball.

Yes, that bothered me some, too, though it really wasn't the point of the video.
I really think this could help people who tend to squat and jump at the serve, thinking that knee bend is a benefit in itself. It can teach them the feeling of getting the necessary tension in the body, "spring loading," I guess.
I'm trying to think of pro's who hit like this. It's somewhere in my memory banks. Margaret Court, maybe? Though that could be completely wrong. Also, I'm sure there were some male players.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by Ross K

Came across this yesterday, courtesy of Pat Dougherty (I know he's a massive figure in the game, worked with Bolletieri, etc.) But what do you serve-meisters reckon?

Personally, I like how he describes the technique/concept (a spring that's loaded, the archer's bow stuff makes perfect sense coming from Pat, etc), as well as the seemingly simple yet effective mechanics. Er, the bit about how many don't store enough energy during their motion certainly chimed with me . I want to try that back-foot pull in - raise arch very high - toes into the ground thing (that's more pronounced and vertical than what I usually do.) I love how he describes that with this technique, the server needs to feel the serve and not think in terms of how it looks visually. And generally I really liked the fluidity and snap in the girl's motion.

Anyone have a view?... "Spring-loaded technique?"... I, for one, might very well be giving it a go later today.

Thx,

R.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixx-MCC7D88

This is a great video. I changed my serve motion to this (about 6 weeks ago) and it's working nicely.

[SystemicAnomaly]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

He makes some good points, but, his explanation is more complicated than it needs to be. And the wind-up of the right arm is just silly and wastes the opportunity to develop timing, tempo and momentum.

Did not find Pat D's explanation particularly complicated. On the contrary, I thought that it provided some valuable insight. Modified the takeback only slightly to suit my own anatomy and needs. No problems with timing, tempo or momentum at all -- in fact, it seemed to simplify these aspects of the serve. To each his own, I guess.
.

[yellowoctopus]

From waist down, the motion looks almost identical to that of Navratilova. Personally, I like the top half set up of Navratilova's motion better than what is shown in the serve doctor's video.

Navratilova's service motion video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XaUWTa9TQQ

[Ross K]

So one or two pro's have been name-checked thus far, but any more who use this technique?

[charliefedererer]

Originally Posted by Ross K

So one or two pro's have been name-checked thus far, but any more who use this technique?

You mean besides Rafa, Fed, Djoker, Sampras, Soderling, Verdasco...?

Pat Dougherty is great communicator, and shows infectious enthusiasm. He makes it easier to understand the complex nature of the serve thoughout his serving video with great analogies, of which his spring analogy is just one.

But coaches have been trying to get their players to do what Pat teaches for at least since Pancho Gonzales (and even earlier big servers) showed the importance of getting their whole body into their serve with a big windup.

[Ross K]

Originally Posted by charliefedererer

You mean besides Rafa, Fed, Djoker, Sampras, Soderling, Verdasco...?

Pat Dougherty is great communicator, and shows infectious enthusiasm. He makes it easier to understand the complex nature of the serve thoughout his serving video with great analogies, of which his spring analogy is just one.

But coaches have been trying to get their players to do what Pat teaches for at least since Pancho Gonzales (and even earlier big servers) showed the importance of getting their whole body into their serve with a big windup.

Are you sure about that?... I suspect you mean certain aspects of a larger generic style...