posters who you want to see hit.

[arche3]

And Sennoc, I really would like an explanation of your forehand mechanics. I do seek tennis technique knowledge so I would appreciate it if you would explain the way you arrived at your forehand stroke. And what you think the strengths and weaknesses of it are.

[Ash_Smith]

@arche3

I'm not sure exactly if that's how most pro coaches teach it! Certainly those that have been RPT trained do! I picked up on it when doing some work with Luis Mediero and Emilio a few years back. In terms of generating power on volleys it's really important to get these combinations right as they stop you having to/trying to do too much with the arm and allow you to control the body movement for maximum effect.

Cheers

Ash

[Hewex]

Originally Posted by Ash_Smith

Sennoc - timing of the foot placement on the volly depends on the height of contact. Low volley and the foot does plant just before the contact (step before the hit). Mid-high volley and the contact takes place during the step (step during the hit) and for high volleys the contact comes first (contact before the step).

From what I saw of TonLars forehand volleys in that vid, they were dropping below net height so his footwork was spot on technically.

If you want to be technically perfect then you should know and incorporate this into your own volleys.

Cheers

Ash

Thanks Ash,

I just learned a lot about volleys from that post.

[arche3]

Thanks Ash. I needed this little tip as I really want to improve my volleys. I can place it but there is something wrong. Again this helps and actually makes sense visually in my mind.

Originally Posted by Ash_Smith

@arche3

I'm not sure exactly if that's how most pro coaches teach it! Certainly those that have been RPT trained do! I picked up on it when doing some work with Luis Mediero and Emilio a few years back. In terms of generating power on volleys it's really important to get these combinations right as they stop you having to/trying to do too much with the arm and allow you to control the body movement for maximum effect.

Cheers

Ash

[sennoc]

Originally Posted by Ash_Smith

Sennoc - timing of the foot placement on the volly depends on the height of contact. Low volley and the foot does plant just before the contact (step before the hit). Mid-high volley and the contact takes place during the step (step during the hit) and for high volleys the contact comes first (contact before the step).

I analyzed almost every replay of Federer's volleys during last 5 years. Thousands of shots. I saw just a few examples when his foot landed on the ground at contact. He lost all these volleys. He hits in the air. Check other good volleyers. Henman. Sampras. Check them frame by frame.

Surprise!

[li0scc0]

Wow, this is boring, can we get back to Jolly and Drak?

[arche3]

Originally Posted by sennoc

I analyzed almost every replay of Federer's volleys during last 5 years. Thousands of shots. I saw just a few examples when his foot landed on the ground at contact. He lost all these volleys. He hits in the air. Check other good volleyers. Henman. Sampras. Check them frame by frame.

Surprise!

Is it step and hit but the hit is a split second before impact on the videos of federer you studied? how far up in the air was the lead foot? Just the lead foot is airborn right?

[Ash_Smith]

Originally Posted by sennoc

I analyzed almost every replay of Federer's volleys during last 5 years. Thousands of shots. I saw just a few examples when his foot landed on the ground at contact. He lost all these volleys. He hits in the air. Check other good volleyers. Henman. Sampras. Check them frame by frame.

Surprise!

Look again and study the height of the contact points of those volleys. Believe me, Luis and Emilio have studied thousands of Pro volleys (and they've actually taught Pro players too). I have studied and taught also, you need to put what you think you see in conxtext of the situation. For mid-high volleys the lead foot should be in the air a little - there's no surprise there, that's what I said (hit during the step). Look for low volleys and you'll also see what I stated and the same for high volleys. Players who hit mid-high volleys and have completed their step before the hit have a higher chance of arming tha ball and/or missing the volley. Maybe this is what you saw in the video's you have watched.

Surprise, no?

If you want to volley technically perfectly (which is your goal apparently) then you'll heed the advice of 2 of the worlds greatest coaches (and me) and add it into your game. Or you could not, up to you!

Arche3 and Hewex - no worries, glad to help.

Regards

Ash

[sennoc]

Originally Posted by arche3

And Sennoc, I really would like an explanation of your forehand mechanics.

It's too complicated to write about all aspects here, in a foreign language and under pressure of time. Give me some months.

Originally Posted by arche3

I do seek tennis technique knowledge so I would appreciate it if you would explain the way you arrived at your forehand stroke.

In a very unusual way. I wanted to find real physical and biomechanical principles of tennis. I read all scientific tennis literature and in my opinion explanations were not good. I started my own work.

First, I built a theoretical, physical model. Then I tried to adapt it and check it on the court. Then I compared the results with the technique of pro players (my library has more than 120 DVDs with many replays of pro strokes). They I built next model and so on. This is not the end of the story, but I can't say more at the moment.

As a result, there are no teaching artifacts in my strokes. That's why they look a bit different than those you see at pro strokes.

[sennoc]

Originally Posted by Ash_Smith

Look again and study the height of the contact points of those volleys. Believe me, Luis and Emilio have studied thousands of Pro volleys (and they've actually taught Pro players too). I have studied and taught also, you need to put what you think you see in conxtext of the situation.

I appreciate your comment, but these guys were wrong. I guess their methodology was wrong. They probably made statistical analysis of volleyers - good and bad in the same population. Why don't you want to check my words? That's so easy, Federer or Henman were quite popular players , their videos are available everywhere...

[arche3]

you should teach it to a young player and see if it helps or not. I think at our age it will be of limited benefit as we are too slow to benefit from new techniques. But if a new way of tennis mechanics can be taught to someone young and growing it can be a test of new theories.

But I would refrain from calling the kid an idiot if he does not do it right the first few times.....

I agree there are very few studies of tennis based on biomechanics probably because everyone hits differently. And thinks differently.

I do think you have something to contribute here if you can just stop with the name calling of others who challenge your ideas. The best way to defend your theories is to show us what they are so we can apply them to our game and see if that works. I am at least as athletic as you so I can apply whatever works for you. I am looking forward to your thoughts on the forehand mechanics you've researched.

Originally Posted by sennoc

It's too complicated to write about all aspects here, in a foreign language and under pressure of time. Give me some months.



In a very unusual way. I wanted to find real physical and biomechanical principles of tennis. I read all scientific tennis literature and in my opinion explanations were not good. I started my own work.

First, I built a theoretical, physical model. Then I tried to adapt it and check it on the court. Then I compared the results with the technique of pro players (my library has more than 120 DVDs with many replays of pro strokes). They I built next model and so on. This is not the end of the story, but I can't say more at the moment.

As a result, there are no teaching artifacts in my strokes. That's why they look a bit different than those you see at pro strokes.

[Ash_Smith]

Like I said, take it or leave it. It's up to you.

I have, I stand by my statement. Have you ever tried to hit a low volley, under control whilst having your front (lead) foot in the air? That's a video I'd love to see.

I hope you turn out to be as visionary as you think you are Sennoc! The Sennoc Academy will be turning out an army of world beating players, except that winning won't be their goal.

I too cannot wait to hear the principals behind your forehand and how you arrived at the theory that a straight takeback (whch increases inertia) is better biomechanically than a takeback incporporating angular momentum (elbow lead or loop style).

Cheers

Ash

[dozu]

Originally Posted by Ash_Smith

Look again and study the height of the contact points of those volleys. Believe me, Luis and Emilio have studied thousands of Pro volleys (and they've actually taught Pro players too). I have studied and taught also, you need to put what you think you see in conxtext of the situation. For mid-high volleys the lead foot should be in the air a little - there's no surprise there, that's what I said (hit during the step). Look for low volleys and you'll also see what I stated and the same for high volleys. Players who hit mid-high volleys and have completed their step before the hit have a higher chance of arming tha ball and/or missing the volley. Maybe this is what you saw in the video's you have watched.

Surprise, no?

If you want to volley technically perfectly (which is your goal apparently) then you'll heed the advice of 2 of the worlds greatest coaches (and me) and add it into your game. Or you could not, up to you!

Arche3 and Hewex - no worries, glad to help.

Regards

Ash

thanks for the good explanation Ash.... I think it has to do with the fact that the volley is a high to low stroke, and therefore high volleys happen relatively early in the motion, where the front foot has not planted yet, while low volleys happen relatively late in the motion (contact point more forward), and quite often the foot has planted.

[wanted to throw another punch at sennoc here, but at this point it almost feel like not worth the effort now, because the guy is not even on the level playing field.... his first round losses are proof that all his 'knowledge' is hog wash lol..... oops, I still threw the punch]

[tennis_balla]

Luis Mediero is wrong? Ouch

[Ash_Smith]

No worries Dozu. Hope it helps.

Cheers

Ash

[dozu]

Hunter, come to the rescue! the gang up attack has resumed!

[Ash_Smith]

@ Balla

Apparently so, the most inspirational coach I have ever worked with (and I've been lucky enough to work with a few world class coaches in my time) knows nothing about tennis, at least according to an ammature tennis player.

Funny old world innit!!!

Cheers

Ash

[TennisCoachFLA]

Originally Posted by Ash_Smith

@ Balla

Apparently so, the most inspirational coach I have ever worked with (and I've been lucky enough to work with a few world class coaches in my time) knows nothing about tennis, at least according to an ammature tennis player.

Funny old world innit!!!

Cheers

Ash

Same here Ash. Macci, Saviano, Bangoura, Sanchez-Vicario......I have also been lucky to work with some greats.

They have landed top D-1 scholarships for hundreds, made others into money making professionals.

But apparently they, and I, have no clue about tennis. Go figure.

[tennis_balla]

Originally Posted by Ash_Smith

@ Balla

Apparently so, the most inspirational coach I have ever worked with (and I've been lucky enough to work with a few world class coaches in my time) knows nothing about tennis, at least according to an ammature tennis player.

Funny old world innit!!!

Cheers

Ash

it is rather funny.

Remember the thread I made about Spanish Training Methods, where I posted exerts from Luis Mediero's DVD (which got later taken down from Youtube ) you commented in the thread a few times, anyways that DVD alone opened my eyes and still gives me goosebumps everytime I watch it cause he's so right and its so simple, explaining the 4 key elements to train (rhythm, movement, technique, recover). It fit in perfectly with my own philosophies. The man is an inspiration and you can see and hear in his voice the passion he has towards the sport. Speaking on DVD's, do you have or know of any others I can buy from RPT or of Luis? Would really love to get my hands on more stuff. I'm coaching in Europe now, so shipping should be easier.

[Ash_Smith]

@Balla

Yeah, I'm currently wainting on the Spanish office to send me over all the new DVD's (they're all in spanish though, so I've got some translating to do!). When they get here i'll let you know!

Where you coaching now?

Cheers

Ash