Forehand Consistency.

[Thereallovebone]

There Is No Way In Hell That A Tennis Ball Will Stay Under Henman's Armpit During That Forehand. And If That's Not What's Happening Then Why Offer It Up As Some Great Tip????

[Thereallovebone]

Originally Posted by TwistServe

If you guys do play a match or a "game", please record it on DivX or some other medium .. and allow us to watch.

Bungalow Bill didn't take my challenge. He figured (and rightly so) that it would be nearly impossible to hit decent forehands after placing a tennis ball under his armpit like Kana suggested.

[Bungalo Bill]

Originally Posted by Thereallovebone

There Is No Way In Hell That A Tennis Ball Will Stay Under Henman's Armpit During That Forehand. And If That's Not What's Happening Then Why Offer It Up As Some Great Tip????

When players play in a dynamic condition there will be times it will be one ball, two balls, three balls, one ball in a half, etc. However, the majority of time the one ball theory is a good teaching tool as it generally lets the arm move naturally and helps reduce injury.

The point to the ball under the arm pit, is again, used to EDUCATE someone on how they are to MOVE their elbow in such a way as to NOT lose control of the racquet face.

Some players swing like a gate with the elbow far away from their body. Some players lift their elbow back and up at contact. This is the point of the ball under the arm pit exercise.

No one is measuring whether a ball can stay under someones armpit the whole match. It wont! It is to get an idea of where the elbow can comfortably pass during the forward motion of the stroke. It is a guideline. The ball under the arm pit helps eliminate elbow roll and players who stick their arm way out from their body and get tennis elbow or swing like a gate.

I am not trying to make fun of you or insult you. If I did I apoligize. I can also get a bit direct about things. Here is a pciture that I believe is showing us what you mean about the elbow.

In this picture the elbow moves away from the body but is not extended out towards the left or right from the side. This is perfectly ok because the circular motion of the elbow will pass relatively close to the side.

http://www.easitennis.com/ExampleAnalysis.html

Also, to support what you are trying to say. Many players have their elbow a little further out from the side then others. This is also acceptable PROVIDING it is not causing excessive damage to the elbow AND they can control the racquet face.

The reason why the elbow can move around more in todays tennis is because of the use of the Western grips. The Western grips have the added benefit of "locking" the wrist with the forearm. The Eastern does not and one who uses the Eastern has to take extra care to fix the wrist as the racquet moves forward.

[Bungalo Bill]

Originally Posted by Thereallovebone

There Is No Way In Hell That A Tennis Ball Will Stay Under Henman's Armpit During That Forehand. And If That's Not What's Happening Then Why Offer It Up As Some Great Tip????

Because it is and is very useful in teaching.

[Bungalo Bill]

Originally Posted by Thereallovebone

Bungalow Bill didn't take my challenge. He figured (and rightly so) that it would be nearly impossible to hit decent forehands after placing a tennis ball under his armpit like Kana suggested.

Again the purpose of the ball under the arm pit is to help the body understand how the elbow is to pass.

I think the challenge should be even. I have played a long time. I have an excellent forehand. It is my weapon. But I learned the stupid "ball under the arm pit" way. I learned that one of the best things to do is to keep the elbow close to the body for racquet control and power (leverage).

It is obvious to me that my power will be like an old dog chasing a fox. Your shiney new forehand will be like it is ready for the Daytona 500.

So what do you say? I will play with my old, out-of-date, lousey forehand against your new, high racquet and big elbow movement. I think that is fair dont you?

[Thereallovebone]

Originally Posted by Bungalo Bill

Because it is and is very useful in teaching.

Yeah, just don't try to actually use it in a $500.00 challenge match.

[Thereallovebone]

Originally Posted by Bungalo Bill

racquet control and power (leverage).

So what do you say? I will play with my old, out-of-date, lousey forehand against your new, high racquet and big elbow movement. I think that is fair dont you?

Old lousey forehand against your new shiney one. What do you say?

Just keep that ball under your armpit and YOU'RE ON!! I'll crush those weak little feeble forehands that you hit right down your throat!!!!!

[Bungalo Bill]

Originally Posted by Thereallovebone

Just keep that ball under your armpit and YOU'RE ON!! I'll crush those weak little feeble forehands that you hit right down your throat!!!!!

Oh no, I already said the ball under the arm pit is an exercise. People dont play with the ball under the arm pit in a real match but they learn to use it as a guideline.

If you have so much confidence in what you are saying it is clear to me that my forehand is a tired old coon dog. Come on you should easily nail me as I feebly try to keep my elbow close. What do you say, give an old dog a chance to win.

[Thereallovebone]

Originally Posted by Bungalo Bill

Oh no, I already said the ball under the arm pit is an exercise. People dont play with the ball under the arm pit in a real match but they learn to use it as a guideline.

If you have so much confidence in what you are saying it is clear to me that my forehand is a tired old coon dog. Come on you should easily nail me as I feebly try to keep my elbow close. What do you say, give an old dog a chance to win.

Why wouldn't you want to employ such a great tip like keeping the ball under your armpit? When I disagreed with it you put me in my place. Why not put your money where your mouth is and use that great tip to kick my butt??

BECAUSE IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO HIT A DECENT FOREHAND THAT WAY!!

[Thereallovebone]

[quote=Bungalo Bill]Oh no, I already said the ball under the arm pit is an exercise. People dont play with the ball under the arm pit in a real match but they learn to use it as a guideline.

Yes. Use it as a guideline of how NOT to hit the ball during a match.

[Thereallovebone]

Originally Posted by Bungalo Bill

Oh geez not another one.



Your challenge is unfair. You are not allowing me to swing the racquet while you can. But I tell what I will accept. You swing the way you swing and I will swing the way I swing. I will go anyday with someone forehand to forehand. I think you ought to calm down and try and understand what we are saying.

]

I'm sure you have a GREAT forehand as long as you don't limit yourself by keeping a ball under your armpit. THAT'S MY WHOLE F***ING POINT!!!

[Bungalo Bill]

Originally Posted by Thereallovebone

I'm sure you have a GREAT forehand as long as you don't limit yourself by keeping a ball under your armpit. THAT'S MY WHOLE F***ING POINT!!!

You didnt make your point very well and you took things to the extreme and were splitting hairs on everything.

You dont understand what purpose certain exercises are for and why they exist. The ball under the arm pit is an EXCELLENT aid in helping people learn the distance their elbow needs to be from their body.

Again the challenge from me is I will play with my elbow close to my body as if a ball is under my arm pit. It may be a ball, or a ball in a half. But my elbow will not go willy nilly all over the place. It will not go out to the point of being extended like a gate.

You can do whatever the hell you want.

Come on let's get rid of my old out-dated forehand. Let's bury it.

[Thereallovebone]

Originally Posted by Bungalo Bill

You didnt make your point very well and you took things to the extreme and were splitting hairs on everything.

You dont understand what purpose certain exercises are for and why they exist. The ball under the arm pit is an EXCELLENT aid in helping people learn the distance their elbow needs to be from their body.

Again the challenge from me is I will play with my elbow close to my body trying to keep it about a balls distance from my side. It may be a ball, a ball in a half, etc. but my elbow will not be willy nilly all over. It will not go out to the point of being extended like a gate.

You can do whatever the hell you want.

Now we're talking!!!!! So we'll build a little teather, the length of one and a half tennis balls and we'll hook it to your side. For $500.00.!!! You're ON!!!

[Bungalo Bill]

Originally Posted by Thereallovebone

Now we're talking!!!!! So we'll build a little teather, the length of one and a half tennis balls and we'll hook it to your side. For $500.00.!!! You're ON!!!

Actually you forgot one thing. My elbow may be close to my side but it is allowed to go back and forward further then the distance from my side.

[Thereallovebone]

Originally Posted by Bungalo Bill

Again the challenge from me is I will play with my elbow close to my body as if a ball is under my arm pit. It may be a ball, or a ball in a half.

. How do we make sure of this. These are YOUR words, not mine. And you say I'm not clear?? You backtrack more than Pete Sampras chasing an Agassi topspin lob!!

[ATXtennisaddict]

U know...I always like to think tennis is picking up a racket, swinging it, and hit the ball over the net.... with all this super-analysis, I am getting a major headache LOL

Originally Posted by Kana Himezaki

Plus, in the Federer movie, he's barely even warming up. However, STILL note his elbow is fully bent and kept relatively close to the body. Eastern grips do keep slightly further away, but for SW and Western grips it's completely essential.

Thanks for the movies.

You saying federer doesn't use proper form when he is "barely even warming up"... What you're implying is his forehand improves as the match goes on? WRONG!

Also, you can clearly see the elbow is not fully bent.. it is partially bent. At contact the angle the elbow is bent is about 120 degree angle, maybe even more. If it was fully bent he would be able to kiss his palm. Bad choice of words Kana... Either you're blind, extremely exagerating, or just use words incorrectly. Good thing you used the word "relatively close" in the next sentence.

Here is Federer forehand again for your review: http://www.importexpert.com/tennis/Federer_FH.mov

I'm not aruging that the elbow should or shouldnt be bent.. This post is simply trying to show that different grips have variable degrees of bending the elbow.. and that the elbow on federer's forehand is not fully bent as Kana suggest. Go frame by frame you will see at contact the elbow is actually relatively far from the body.

Originally Posted by Kana Himezaki

Plus, in the Federer movie, he's barely even warming up. However, STILL note his elbow is fully bent and kept relatively close to the body.

A picture does a thousand words..

Notice the "fully bent" elbow and how it is kept "relatively close" to the body.

[Thereallovebone]

Uh oh. If Roger had a tennis ball under his armpit, it would be on the ground.
Roger, you need some lessons from Kana, PRONTO!!

[ATXtennisaddict]

Federer has so many types of forehands though... tennisplayer.net says so.