Wide Angle Strategy

[thebuffman]

i've been hitting my wide angled cross court shot off of my 1hbh (from ad court) with good efficiency. during my ladder match today, with regularity, i would hit the wide angle shot to the ad court and pull my opponent out wide and approach off of it. time and time again i received a weak reply from his backhand which i volleyed away into the deuce court. i scored lots of points with this combo.

now i am pondering "what is the best reply for my opponent?" of course his reply wasn't getting the job done, but i am not concerned with his reply. i am concerned about getting better and learning better strategy. i placed myself in his shoes and wondered what i would do if someone pulled me off the court with a wide angled shot to my backhand. literally i don't know what i would do. if i were to answer the question i would say to hit a shallow dipper to the deuce court or perhaps try a risky lob to the deuce corner.

i would love to hear others chime in on this.

[NLBwell]

The ideal reply, of course, would be a winner down the line. The court should be opened up since you hit from far over toward the sideline and he is stationed near his crosscourt sideline. To hit the winner, he has to be in good position when hitting the ball. He needs speedy court coverage and a reliable stroke for it to be a high percentage play. If you have put him in an uncomfortable postion, or he doesn't have a reliable powerful backhand down the line, the down-the-line winner reply is a very low-percentage play. Putting yourself in that postion, how well do you move and how reliable is your backhand? Are these things you can work on?
If not in a good position for the return, best to play it safe going cross-court. The reply could hit a severe cross-court, but again it is low percentage if the player isn't set for the shot.
The percentage play is to just try to put it back deep cross-court and re-start the rally - deep enough so it doesn't get attacked, maybe looped some so that there is time to recover court position. Speed in getting to the ball and speed in recovering postion are important.

Me being old-school, I would probably reply to your cross-court with a slice approach up the line and come into the net, covering the down-the-line pass. How are your approach shots and volleys?

[Zachol82]

If someone hits a shot out extremely wide and toward your backhand, the simplest way to get yourself back into the point is by hitting down the line.

Since in your example, you're hitting a backhand from the ad side of the court, your opponent should have hit it down the line toward your deuce side of the court...so that at least he'll move you around.

[thebuffman]

see this is where things get confusing for me. i see the pros attempting to execute what you all advocate, reply down the line from an outside ball to the backhand. HOWEVER after studying "Directionals" I am learned that the reply to an outside ball is back across court. this is exactly how and why i destroyed my opponent. he always replied trying to bring the ball back across court where i was closing in and volleyed it into the deuce court for a winner.

as far as my skills go, i am able to both hit slice down the line and topspin down the line. Directionals tells me not to do this though. perhaps the study of directionals is good for fundamentals but not for advanced situations. i am not sure.

more discussion please.

[SweetH2O]

I've never heard of anyone applying directionals to approach shots, passing shots or volleys. In those situations you hit the ball where you need to based on your and your opponent's positioning. Directionals is for baseline rallies. Nobody would suggest going crosscourt if your opponent is at the net guarding the crosscourt shot while leaving down the line open.

[Dominik]

If you're feeling good, take some pace off the shot and hit a better angle crosscourt.

If they're not coming in, the percentage play is probably to slice/float it back crosscourt.

If they're coming in, the down the line backhand is a fairly safe shot to try to make. You're already pulled out so you're hitting into the court and not away from it. Just roll it back, you have so much margin for error now *because* you're hitting from way out to inside of the court.

NOTE: The last option is also why it's not always the best idea to approach off of cross-court shots unless you *know* the reply will be weak/poorly placed.

[LeeD]

Pull me wide on the backhand side, first choice is a sharp angled and short CC slice. If you handle that, next time is a CC lob back to where you approached from, your backhand side, and CC to the deepest corner.
If you handle that, lower percentage DTL pass attempt.
If you handle that, I go up to the net and shake your hand.

[thebuffman]

Originally Posted by SweetH2O

I've never heard of anyone applying directionals to approach shots, passing shots or volleys.

i think you misunderstood the situation. you are looking through the eyes of the person approaching the net. instead this thread is about the person being pulled off court out wide and getting pressured by and approaching opponent. rules of directionals say to go back across court. people in the thread say go down the line.

Originally Posted by Dominik

If they're coming in, the down the line backhand is a fairly safe shot to try to make. You're already pulled out so you're hitting into the court and not away from it. Just roll it back, you have so much margin for error now *because* you're hitting from way out to inside of the court.

NOTE: The last option is also why it's not always the best idea to approach off of cross-court shots unless you *know* the reply will be weak/poorly placed.

you know i didn't think about it like this. going "down the line" from outside the court really is not "down the line" but more so a slight cross court angle. and you are right, that is a dangerous shot to approach on. really hadn't thought about it like that. now i know what to do when it happens to me.

Originally Posted by LeeD

Pull me wide on the backhand side, first choice is a sharp angled and short CC slice. If you handle that, next time is a CC lob back to where you approached from, your backhand side, and CC to the deepest corner.
If you handle that, lower percentage DTL pass attempt.
If you handle that, I go up to the net and shake your hand.

on the deep cc reply, do you rip this shot as much as possible? i notice a lot of times when pros are being approached by their opponent, they appear to add more heat to their cc passing shot. i could be wrong though.

[LeeD]

DTL passes off a wide backhand is the lowest percentage you can play.
Safest is CC short angle, if you have the shot.
CC lob is also safe, since you have the longest court, can use slice to control depth and height, AND the player made the mistake of using a CC approach, so he's moving AWAY from your CC lob. He's moving forwards can covering center.

[thebuffman]

leed check my previous post. i modified it looking for your reply. thx

[larry10s]

nlbwell gave a good reply
what i do depends on what you do
if you stay back and im reasonably balanced
i'll take it up the line and approach.if its a winner ill take it
or i'll more severely angle you back cross court slice or topspin
if im in trouble and you stay back i'll try to float it back deep cross court or to the middle to give me time to recover.
if you are coming in i go dtl for the passing shot
or lob deep into the ad corner
directionals are not written in stone and rules were made to be broken

[LeeD]

Hardly ever a need to ADD more speed for your passing shots.
You should hit where they can't cover, and that doesn't need ball speed, unless you're talking about 40 mph stuff.
I hardly ever use a CC deep for a reply off a wide backhand. My opponents all can play net, and would move in, but would NOT choose to hit CC approaches.
CC approachers get beaten by the combination of short angle CC, deep CC lobs, and DTL slices OR topspinners.
CC approaches can only beat 3.5 players with no game.

[larry10s]

Originally Posted by LeeD

CC approachers get beaten by the combination of short angle CC, deep CC lobs, and DTL slices OR topspinners.
CC approaches can only beat 3.5 players with no game.

andy roddick needs to read this and reread it until he gets it

[LeeD]

Of course, even the announcers know this, every spectator, the ballboys, the opponent, AND the drink servers back inside the stadium.
But Andy got to his level by doing things HIS way, and we can see, with all that physical gift and talent, there is something upstairs holding him back.

[Zachol82]

Originally Posted by thebuffman

see this is where things get confusing for me. i see the pros attempting to execute what you all advocate, reply down the line from an outside ball to the backhand. HOWEVER after studying "Directionals" I am learned that the reply to an outside ball is back across court. this is exactly how and why i destroyed my opponent. he always replied trying to bring the ball back across court where i was closing in and volleyed it into the deuce court for a winner.

as far as my skills go, i am able to both hit slice down the line and topspin down the line. Directionals tells me not to do this though. perhaps the study of directionals is good for fundamentals but not for advanced situations. i am not sure.

more discussion please.

Directionals ONLY apply when you're trying to execute safe shots. Directionals is what you use when you're trying to keep a rally going.

Directionals is still not as important as the most basic rule to win points in Tennis, and that is to hit it to where your opponent is not. If you're already chasing a shot out wide, what's the logic in hitting it back cross-court RIGHT BACK to where your opponent is standing?

[RoddickAce]

It really depends on whether I'm out of position. If you got me out wide with a short angle forehand, then with a short angle backhand, I'd just try to get there as quickly as possible and either: a) if you're not too close to the net, hit a dipping shot(topspin or slice) at your feet and buy myself some time for the next shot if you're not too close to the net, or b) lob you if you are close to the net.

If you're in the middle of moving forward to the net and I have some time to set up, then I'd try to hit a topspin or slice shot down the down the line, and cover the likely crosscourt response if you get there.

Another option would be to wrongfoot you by hitting a crosscourt backhand (topspin or slice); because approaching crosscourt exposes the down the line pass, most people tend to move in quickly to cover that side, so hitting back crosscourt would force you to go back in the direction you came from.

[LeeD]

..and if your opponent hits deep CC when you hit CC approaches, maybe you need a higher level of opponent's ??
My first choice, the sharp angled CC, tests your backhand low and half volleys. Can you do anything with them, besides pop them up safely up the middle? I"m moving forwards after hitting the shot.
My second choice, the CC deep lob, is in direct responce to YOU being able to handle my first choice. CC lobs can be hit higher and harder, and still drop in, drop in on your BACKHAND side of the court. What are you going to do, after running forwards, then running back to cover the lob? Are you going to run around and hit a FOREHAND? I'll just short angle you again, making you cover the whole court moving forwards off you overhead!
Only a shortcircuited brain would hit deep CC when you've CC approached.

[HunterST]

As far as the DTL return violating Wardlaw's Directionals, it doesn't really apply in this situation. Since you're out wide, the line is still to the right of your body. Thus, you can hit a "cross court" shot" with less angle and it will go down the line.

[SweetH2O]

Originally Posted by thebuffman

i think you misunderstood the situation. you are looking through the eyes of the person approaching the net. instead this thread is about the person being pulled off court out wide and getting pressured by and approaching opponent. rules of directionals say to go back across court. people in the thread say go down the line.

No, I understood. Zachol82's latest reply illustrates what I was trying to say in better words. The person being pressured is looking for a passing shot, not a safe rally return. Hit it where they ain't. Otherwise you won't be making your opponent pay for trying to approach off a cross court shot.

[only4theweak187]

i've hit countless backhand down-the-line passing winners when pulled out wide from a lefties FOREHAND to the same direction your hitting your one hander. They always thought they'd get a weak crosscourt backhand reply. i really use the leverage of my left hand and smack it through the doubles alley to land in the back court.