Victimized by the Yo-Yo Technique

[coolblue123]

Originally Posted by Andres

Why don't you do the exact same thing? When he dropshots you, instead of dropping it back or angling it, lob it to his baseline, and wait for the defensive lob to smash.

That guy got to every ball. Unfortunately, he's game is built for rallying all day long. My game is to rally till I see an opening and pounce on the ball. Either or, this match taught me that I have to be more strategic when playing against these types of players. I have alot of footwork exercises I have to work on.

[dak95_00]

Originally Posted by mightyrick

I employ the drop/lob/drop/lob tactic if I find that it works. It isn't pretty, but it wins matches.

The people who defend this tactic against me successfully always seem to do two things: 1) They return my lob with an even more brutal topspin lob... pushing me way back behind the baseline, 2) When I'm behind the baseline, they drop shot me. When I play someone with a good topspin lob and a great dropshot, I know I'm in for a long day.

I can usually neutralize net players by just lobbing over their hands to the backhand side. Eventually, they either stop coming to the net, or they start trying to hit weird backpeddling overheads to their backhand side. Not the greatest of shots.

Recently, I got crushed in a singles match by a lady who is a pretty good 4.0 doubles player. Initially, I just tried to trade forehands with her, but she was more consistent than me. Then, I tried to drop/lob/drop/lob her. That worked a little bit, but then she started lobbing me to death, pushing me back. Then she'd dropshot me. Game over. I lost 6-2, 6-3.

Thanks!

In my Homer Simpson personal thought voice, "Yum. Pizza. Yum. Beer!"

[mightyrick]

Originally Posted by Nellie

If I am playing someone who lobs a lot when I am at the net, I set up near the service line, and it is almost impossible to lob over my head.

When someone does this to me -- starts cheating towards the service line to prevent the lob -- I will just lob to the backhand side or start to mix in passing shots with backhand-side lobs.

If my opponent is able to hit backhand-side volleys from no-mans land at head-high (or higher), they'll beat me for sure. But a lot of people (at my levels at least) don't have that shot in their arsenal.

[Power Player]

I play a guy who does this on a 5.0 level and is probably the best player at my club because he just does not miss.

Make sure to slow down your game..don't kill the ball, and always keep him moving. In fact the exact pattern I use over and over that works is DTL, CC, CC, CC. You have to swing relaxed..have good technique and hit those shots consistently and be patient.

The CC shots are your answer to his lollipop lobs and drops. You will gethim running side to side like he got you running back and forth.

[mightyrick]

To Frank's point, here's the video (Brent Abel) where I learned about this technique:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FiQjWjwbHc

Here's a few other examples of this in real life:

Santoro / Nalbandian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-VolX8dtkE

Hingis - Effectiveness of lobs against S&V
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hld7URNy7t0

Two random rec players
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeYyBT8ImpA

[Nellie]

Originally Posted by mightyrick

When someone does this to me -- starts cheating towards the service line to prevent the lob -- I will just lob to the backhand side or start to mix in passing shots with backhand-side lobs.

If my opponent is able to hit backhand-side volleys from no-mans land at head-high (or higher), they'll beat me for sure. But a lot of people (at my levels at least) don't have that shot in their arsenal.

A couple of quick side steps and I am not hitting a backhand lob... You have to be almost perfect (hitting to a tiny area with sufficient pace) to force a player to hit backhand lobs

[mightyrick]

Originally Posted by Nellie

A couple of quick side steps and I am not hitting a backhand lob... You have to be almost perfect (hitting to a tiny area with sufficient pace) to force a player to hit backhand lobs

Agree. It does require very good/quick footwork and a solid volley. The lobs I am talking about are almost always to the back corners. Running around those is certainly possible, but it isn't an easy task.

I know how players at my general level react, but I'm curious how better players elect to deal with this. So how would you elect to return (primarily) these kinds of backhand-side baseline corner lobs? Pure overhead smash? Another lob? Drop volley? Hard forehand volley?

[user92626]

Originally Posted by mightyrick

Agree. It does require very good/quick footwork and a solid volley. The lobs I am talking about are almost always to the back corners. Running around those is certainly possible, but it isn't an easy task.

I know how players are my general level react, but I'm curious how better players elect to deal with this. So how would you elect to return (primarily) these kinds of backhand-side baseline corner lobs? Pure overhead smash? Another lob? Drop volley? Hard forehand volley?

If you have time to position and the lob is high enough, do an overhead. If only time and not height, a regular bh drive to an opening. If no time at all,
a high spinny backhand return to buy you time and recover.

You should already know all of this. What more important is if you can do it. What's new?

[TheBoom]

Originally Posted by coolblue123

I was playing against a 4.0 player (I am around 3.5/4.0 as well) and I was out hitting him through the first 6 pts. At 4 - 2, he pulled the yo-yo on me. That is, drop/lob drop/lob drop/lob throughout the match.

I was defenseless. After losing the first set 7-5, I lost 6-2 in the 2nd because I ran out of steam.

Any defense against this? I tried various techniques, I think this is worst than playing against pushers. I tried dropping his drop shots, angling, and sometimes it works but he just ran down everything.

Stand a little farther back once you get the dropshot back. A guy once told me make a runner hit a make a hitter run. If he likes to run down balls pound strokes in one spot, inconsistancy will show

[danno123]

Originally Posted by coolblue123

I was playing against a 4.0 player (I am around 3.5/4.0 as well) and I was out hitting him through the first 6 pts. At 4 - 2, he pulled the yo-yo on me. That is, drop/lob drop/lob drop/lob throughout the match.

I was defenseless. After losing the first set 7-5, I lost 6-2 in the 2nd because I ran out of steam.

Any defense against this? I tried various techniques, I think this is worst than playing against pushers. I tried dropping his drop shots, angling, and sometimes it works but he just ran down everything.

1) very few players can reliably lob off the backhand side, so when you hit his drop shot, hit mostly to his backhand.
2) it's tough to hit a good lob off a low short ball (and pushers can't really punish this type of ball), so try hitting more slice shots.
3) don't stand too close to the net. Think about "rushing the service line" rather than "rushing the net."
4) it's tough to drop shot or lob well when on the run, so hit the ball from side to side and keep him running.
5) turnabout is fair play - yoyo him.
6) draw him to the net and pass him.
If none of the above work, hang on and enjoy the ride.

[jdawgg]

I never have problems with drop shots because I have good anticipation and im fast. Anticipation is important! once you recognize his swing path is a drop shot then start sprinting as fast as you can to the net, if he changes his shot mid swing hes screwed anyway. Dont be lazy with this!!!!!!! Send a message on the first drop shot he hits, sprint as hard and as fast as you can and just light the ball up, dont overhit, your momentum will give you a lot of pace already especially if it sits up because you got there so fast.

Second... the lob... once you hit his drop shot -- dont just stand there! recover to the service line as fast as you can. In tennis how fast you recover is so overlooked and important. Backpedal like a maniac then split step and you'll be spanking winners all day.

[rkelley]

Originally Posted by Nellie

If I am playing someone who lobs a lot when I am at the net, I set up near the service line, and it is almost impossible to lob over my head.

This is what I do too. As long as they don't have the strokes to drive the ball with pace it works pretty well. It's difficult to lob me because I'm so far back. If they try to hit a passing shot then it's weak enough that I have time to close on the net and angle it off.

One of the tricks to this technique is hitting your approach deep and up the middle most of the time, but as little pace as possible. Make them generate their own pace and give them no angles.

Rich

[LeeD]

Instead of responding to that perfect lob, you should hit a better approach shot DEEPER to within 2' of the baseline, then move just inside the service line for you volley. If it comes low and hard, you can lowvolley it DTL for another approach. If it comes hard and hit, within reach, CC the putaway.
If it comes higher and slower, go for the sharp angle or DTL deep.
It won't be lobbed deep over your backhand because you aren't playing against a 5.5 player.

[Fuji]

I don't really have a definite strategy against these types of players, but I have no fear in punishing them if their lobs are any less them 10 feet feet high. The smash can be your friend if you are able to hit it. If you have some good speed, what I do is run to their backhand lob which is usually garbage and do a deep top spin shot to their weakest side. Trust me, once you can stop a pusher from getting into a groove, your life will be a lot easier!

-Fuji

[kiteboard]

Play two feet inside the baseline. When you come in, stop at the service line and force him to pass you, not lob you. He won't know how to deal with that. Approach dtl to his bh side only.

[tennismonkey]

court positioning can have a huge impact and you don't have to magically improve your footwork or strokes overnight to do it.

kiteboard says stand 2 feet inside the baseline -- it works. i played a guy who hits a lot of drop shots off my weak 2nd serves and drop volleys when he comes to net. standing behind the baseline - i had no chance. standing INSIDE the baseline and being ready to move in pretty much nullified all of his drop shots and drop volleys. he still went for em but if they weren't perfect -- i'd be right there to put em away.

same with approaches to net. he's forcing you to net with his drop shots and then lobbing over you. there's no rule that says you have to get as close to the net as possible. especially when you know he's almost certain to lob. hit a consistent approach to his weaker wing (bh usually) with LOTS of room for error. follow your approach but camp out at around the service line. he'll have to hit a backhand lob that is just about dead perfect for you not to have a shot at it and if he's off -- you've got an overhead you can hit into the open court - crosscourt too giving you even more room.

[mightyrick]

Originally Posted by tennismonkey

kiteboard says stand 2 feet inside the baseline -- it works. i played a guy who hits a lot of drop shots off my weak 2nd serves and drop volleys when he comes to net. standing behind the baseline - i had no chance. standing INSIDE the baseline and being ready to move in pretty much nullified all of his drop shots and drop volleys. he still went for em but if they weren't perfect -- i'd be right there to put em away.

OP's opponent is a 4.0. Not a 3.0 or 3.5. Setting up in no-man's land is asking for trouble. The opponent is just going to start to hit baseline balls right at OP's feet. Very tough to counter with a volley or half-volley. The opponent doesn't have to try to pass him at all. The opponent only has to try to hit deeper balls that cause OP to backpeddle.

[tennismonkey]

i disagree mightyrick. that backhand dipping shot that you think is so easy for a 4.0 is pretty darn tough. but regardless, the point is not to SIT at the service line. it's the reference spot where you split step before your opponent hits his backhand. if he lobs, then you are already in a good position to hit an overhead. if he dips a topspin short you can either come in and volley or let it bounce and hit a half volley or half groundie. the point is you give your opponent more to think about and you take away an option that has been working for him -- the dink and lob game.

tennis is a game of cat and mouse. it's problem solving while sprinting around the court. OP has already lost twice doing the same thing. nothing to lose trying something different.

[Sreeram]

I once lost to someone in a tournament first round. I was the one expected to win the tournament. I lost to same technique of play. I was far better player than him and a better athelet too but I was not used to playing someone who droped that often.
The lesten learnt is, even if you are a baseline basher, you still need to keep looking for chances to keep moving towards the net as much as you can. This will expose you new angles and play better aproach shot. Once you have that attitude of moving forward you can easily beat such a player.
Some people acuse your opponent as a pusher or dirt baller, but I call him a great stratgy player. He has read your game so well when he was down 4-2. He found that you were not having that forward momentum and urge to come to net. He just utilized it. What is wrong in that?

[mightyrick]

Originally Posted by tennismonkey

tennis is a game of cat and mouse. it's problem solving while sprinting around the court. OP has already lost twice doing the same thing. nothing to lose trying something different.

I agree with this statement. When something doesn't work against a given opponent, try something different.

I think where we disagree is around the abilities of OP's opponent. I'm presuming that a 4.0 has a decent forehand. Even though he/she tends to lob/dink a lot. If the opponent doesn't really have a decent forehand, then setting up in no-man's land will probably work. If the 4.0 has any kind of a medium-pace forehand that they can place with some consistency, then OP is going to get burned setting up in no-man's land.

To OP: What kind of a forehand does your opponent have? Did he lob/dink you to death because of his lack of a forehand? Or did he lob/dink you because he figured out your weakness?