kinetic chain for 1HBH

[tonygao]

hi guys,

for 1HBH, how should the kinetic chain be like? is it the same as forehand? legs to hips, hips rotate to bring shoulders, and shoulders to arms?

I am wondering if the hips play a big role in 1HBH, or only shoulder rotation is important to generate the racket head speed? should hips rotate as well?

[GetBetterer]

Wawrinka rotates the hips a lot, at least a lot compared to some others (IMO).

[dozu]

I believe in 'copy the FH' for the 1hbh..... for me this shot has become a legit weapon, so here is what I think -

to me this feels like a left handed FH, with a right handed follow thru - from the prep position thru the backswing to the initial part of wiping the windshield forward, the shot feels like left hand dominant for me..... and although in reality, my left hand lets go at the 'power position', in my mind the right hand only takes over when the racket has gone thru partial windshield wiping, at about the 10 o'clock position.

so with the above said, the left-hand dominant part is basically a mirror image of my FH, which means the leading hip is the main driving force (left hip for the FH, and right hip for the 1hbh).

[Manus Domini]

Originally Posted by tonygao

hi guys,

for 1HBH, how should the kinetic chain be like? is it the same as forehand? legs to hips, hips rotate to bring shoulders, and shoulders to arms?

I am wondering if the hips play a big role in 1HBH, or only shoulder rotation is important to generate the racket head speed? should hips rotate as well?

In the past two weeks, my 1HBH has become a weapon, not a weakness.

I presume you know the right contact point (I didn't realize I had the wrong contact point for a while). What I do is the following:

1. Prepare my backswing as I am moving to the ball. This allows you to already be prepared to swing and not rush your shot
2. Take small steps for positioning. My last step is stepping in with my leading foot, leaning into the shot by twisting my trunk and bending my knees.
3. Keep my arm relaxed and swing with my waist
4. follow through
   
   
   
   

The arm HAS to be relaxed, at least for me, to get the ball in with any sort of pace. As Dozu said, it should basically be a forehand on the opposite side of your body, but remember that where the forehand footwork is variable, the exact same footwork each and every time if possible is needed for your backhand to be a weapon. Also, you have to keep a closed stance if you can take the time to do so.

[fuzz nation]

I find that the timing necessary for a decent one-handed backhand is profoundly different than with a forehand. Although there are certainly similar elements in the kinetic chain for each, I think that they are employed in a different manner. This makes a two-handed backhand much easier to compare with a forehand than a one-hander, at least in my experience. The two-handed backhand is almost a weak-sided forehand.

A forehand seems to work well with the forward weight transfer and hip rotation occurring either simultaneously with the swing or only just slightly ahead of the swing. The one-handed backhand's mechanics seem to stand in stark contrast to a forehand in that the weight transfer and hip "loading" ideally happen before the forward stroke.

I call the backhand's hip action more "loading" than rotation just because I think that the forehand typically allows for a bit more turning than the backhand, but that's just a mild shade of grey. On either side, that component of the kinetic chain is the "hip turn" and for a good 1hbh, it's absolutely vital for energizing the shot.

[MNPlayer]

I think of the 1HB as totally different from the forehand. It's a much more linear stroke, usually hit from a closed stance. While you often see the pros rotate and open up, they do it mostly after contact. One of the the most common problem I see with rec players (including myself) on the 1HB is they open up too early or try to get too much power from the rotation. I can hit a perfectly serviceable 1HB staying totally sideways. And it's possible to actually place the shot, unlike when I rotate into the swing.

[Chenx15]

one hand backhand

1. Check step
2. go to the placement of the ball
3.shoulder turn by doing the chicken wing nice and high
4. prep
5. the secret in the one hand backhand is not only you are timing your arm but your forward foot as well. you are using your arm to induce spin and direction and you are using your forward foot to induce forward momentum and power you do this simultaneously. but you keep it steady until the ball leaves yoru racket.
6. prepare for the next shot

[SystemicAnomaly]

Note that Federer and other elite players coil up quite a bit on the prep for the 1-hander. The uncoiling rotation of the hips and torso play any an important part even tho they are very brief and considerably less than the rotations for the FH. When the forward swing of the arm/racquet commences, the body rotations are pretty much over for many 1hBH shots -- there is a complete kinetic transfer from the torso to the arm swing.

Contrast this with a FH or a 2-handed) stroke. Because the back shoulder/arm is connected to the racquet, the body continues to uncoil during the forward swing (and follow-thru). For the 1hBH, the back shoulder should stay back -- expand the chest (and squeeze the shoulder blades together) in order to let the front shoulder rotate more than the back shoulder.

Originally Posted by SystemicAnomaly

Note that Federer and other elite players coil up quite a bit on the prep for the 1-hander. The uncoiling rotation of the hips and torso play any an important part even tho they are very brief and considerably less than the rotations for the FH. When the forward swing of the arm/racquet commences, the body rotations are pretty much over for many 1hBH shots -- there is a complete kinetic transfer from the torso to the arm swing.

Contrast this with a FH or a 2-handed) stroke. Because the back shoulder/arm is connected to the racquet, the body continues to uncoil during the forward swing (and follow-thru). For the 1hBH, the back shoulder should stay back -- expand the chest (and squeeze the shoulder blades together) in order to let the front shoulder rotate more than the back shoulder.

As usual, good explanation. Treating the "one hander like a forehand", is exactly what's wrong with many club players backhands.

[Manus Domini]

Originally Posted by chico9166

As usual, good explanation. Treating the "one hander like a forehand", is exactly what's wrong with many club players backhands.

I treat it similar to a forehand in some areas, but not the same. I misspoke when I said it should "basically be a forehand", I forgot about the follow through and other things when I wrote. I used to think of it as a left-side forehand, now I incorporate a lot of forehand stuff but leave a lot out.

What I keep in:
cocking the wrist
prep while moving
short, choppy steps
Step into shot

What I add:
Always closed stance and same footwork each time
different follow through (diagnally up and not accross like a WWfh)
[personally] I don't add a loop

but SA's analysis is spot on, I guess I use too much fh in my bh

[dozu]

Originally Posted by chico9166

As usual, good explanation. Treating the "one hander like a forehand", is exactly what's wrong with many club players backhands.

well, I guess I need to clarify as well.... when I said 'copy the FH'.... it would be a closed stance FH to start with..

and although it feels to me that the left hand is still on the racket after impact, in reality it lets go before the impact..

this may not be a textbook way to hit the 1hbh, but I find it very practical in handling all situations, low skidders, deep ball half volleys, high balls etc... that left hand dominant sensation really gives a powerful and controlled feel, instead of that right hand dominant weakish feel when timing is off.

[tonygao]

in the modern forehand, I have seen instructions to emphasize the stretch between hips and shoulders. so basically in preparation phase you should rotate the shoulders to 90 degree but the hips should rotate less to face in between the net and the side fence, not 90 degree to face the side fence. by doing so you create a coil on the core and then it will release more power through uncoiling.

should 1HBH also implement the such concept? hips only rotate to face the side fence(90 degree) but shoulder rotate more, even close to 180 degree to create such coil?

[dozu]

if you watch the pros, the hips are ahead of the shoulders during the forward swing.

this is the same concept as the 'X factor' in golf..... but in golf many people misinterpret this as the angle between the hips and shoulders during the back swing, causing lots of strain in the motion.

backswing doesnt matter, forward swing hits the ball... more specifically, the right hip hits the ball.

[SlowButSure]

Originally Posted by dozu

if you watch the pros, the hips are ahead of the shoulders during the forward swing.

this is the same concept as the 'X factor' in golf..... but in golf many people misinterpret this as the angle between the hips and shoulders during the back swing, causing lots of strain in the motion.

backswing doesnt matter, forward swing hits the ball... more specifically, the right hip hits the ball.

You realize even Mclean has admitted the 'x-factor' is misleading? At the time a lot of players fit that mold because teaching had encouraged it. Previously, and more recently, teaching hasn't and the 'x-factor' is no longer as pervasive or predictive.

The current trend is for much more synchronized motions, a'la Hogan.

The pros I looked at (federer, wawrinka, gasquet) all have pretty synchronous hips and shoulders on their 1hbh.

[dozu]

Originally Posted by SlowButSure

You realize even Mclean has admitted the 'x-factor' is misleading? At the time a lot of players fit that mold because teaching had encouraged it. Previously, and more recently, teaching hasn't and the 'x-factor' is no longer as pervasive or predictive.

The current trend is for much more synchronized motions, a'la Hogan.

The pros I looked at (federer, wawrinka, gasquet) all have pretty synchronous hips and shoulders on their 1hbh.

yes I know.... I have posted that X factor should happen in the downswing, not the backswing (in golf terminology).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdDwMj3_WMA

here you can see the right hip 'bump' when she starts the forward swing, and the 'bump' happens before the shoulder turning clockwise in the forward swing.

[SlowButSure]

Originally Posted by dozu

yes I know.... I have posted that X factor should happen in the downswing, not the backswing (in golf terminology).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdDwMj3_WMA

here you can see the right hip 'bump' when she starts the forward swing, and the 'bump' happens before the shoulder turning clockwise in the forward swing.

Yes, the 'new x-factor'...

http://www.golf.com/golf/instruction...565203,00.html

Backswing, downswing, it's not the same point. Some golfers do it becuase that's how they were taught. Some (previously, and more and more recently) don't. It's one way of hitting the golf ball.

The hips always turn first, in tennis and golf, but the timing of when they slow is really important and I think in tennis in particular it's misleading to use the imagry of them leading throughout the stroke.

[dozu]

Originally Posted by SlowButSure

Yes, the 'new x-factor'...

http://www.golf.com/golf/instruction...565203,00.html

Backswing, downswing, it's not the same point. Some golfers do it becuase that's how they were taught. Some (previously, and more and more recently) don't. It's one way of hitting the golf ball.

The hips always turn first, in tennis and golf, but the timing of when they slow is really important and I think in tennis in particular it's misleading to use the imagry of them leading throughout the stroke.

that's fair... the hit/shoulder differential is more comparable between a golf swing and a tennis FH... at least that's how I feel.. my golf swing is basically a FH.

the tennis backhand feels like a more 'closed' motion, but not by much compared to a closed stance FH.

with that being said, even pros have different 'open-ness' in their 1hbh.... Mauresmo is quite open while Blake is quite closed.

[larry10s]

Originally Posted by dozu

that's fair... the hit/shoulder differential is more comparable between a golf swing and a tennis FH... at least that's how I feel.. my golf swing is basically a FH.

the tennis backhand feels like a more 'closed' motion, but not by much compared to a closed stance FH.

with that being said, even pros have different 'open-ness' in their 1hbh.... Mauresmo is quite open while Blake is quite closed.

john yandell at tennisplayer.net had a great series on the modern one handed backhand. in that series the "openess" of the chest /hips you refer to has to with the grip
more extreme grip more open in general

[dozu]

Originally Posted by larry10s

john yandell at tennisplayer.net had a great series on the modern one handed backhand. in that series the "openess" of the chest /hips you refer to has to with the grip
more extreme grip more open in general

makes sense - Edberg / Mac, conti grips, contact point more to the side, stance more closed.

EBH or SWBH grip players, contact point more forward, stance more open.

[max]

My only observation is that you see a lot just by looking.

The backhand (for me) seems to require a lot more intense LOOKING at the ball than for my forehand. I just do better when I watch the ball more.