Transferring to doubles play

[domosborn]

I love playing tennis, esp singles, but i CANNOT get used to doubles, apart from drills like volleying and practice, what else can i do to improve my game, seeing as I play at a level where singles is minimal, I really want to improve my doubles game, should i keep one partner? it seems to me in doubles gamemanship is much more prevalent, whereas in singles its 1v1, and mind games, whilst they happen *(at least to me) are not as detrimental? How can i sort my head out? I should also point out my volley is my weakest shot, which is not ideal...
Apologies for the rant-like post, but I really do hate it, and just NOT playing isnt an option...

[ProgressoR]

I am also very much a single player and play the occasional dubs, i have never become a fan, because at the lower levels its all cross court boring rallies, with the net guys just standing at the net doing nothing. This is social mixed dubs.

i also found it hard to be more aggressive as I like to be in singles, because you feel obligated to your partner so you dont want to miss so i ended up playing safe, didnt enjoy it.

I like trying things on serve, and strategy and dubs never allowed me that.

The ONLY thing i thank dubs for is spending time at the net, that has helped my net game, but not the transition game, in single i find the transition and first volley the hardest, and you dont do that much in dubs, you usually are already at the net.

Sorry I am not more positive, hope you get something good out of it, others will have great advice. Also at my level I found partners had no idea of strategy for dubs.

i played a ton of badminton dubs and essentially lots of it is similar, be attacking, push opponents around, move together in attack and defence. In dubs if your partner doesnt have clue of how to move as a pair, then you cannot move anywhere yourself without leaving the court open.

[spaceman_spiff]

My doubles game improved when I made the simple realization that doubles is not about hitting winners (nor is it about grinding out points). It's about hitting shots that force your opponents to hit weak and/or predictable shots so that your partner or you will have an easy putaway. Once I realized this, I went into each match thinking "How can I make these guys pop up sitters?"

You have to be able to spot your opponents' weaknesses and hit the shots necessary to exploit them. For the most part, that means having a wide variety of serves and solid returns (just blocking it back usually isn't a good way to play; it's too easy for the net man to put away). Can you hit kick serves to the backhand? Can you hit slice serves to the body? Can you drive returns at the server's feet from both wings? If not, you need to work on those aspects of your game.

You have to be agressive but smart, putting your opponents in a position where they have to hit difficult shots. You have to think about what you're doing with your serves, not just mindlessly hit the same spot over and over. If you do it right, you should end up with a lot of forced errors from your opponents or easy putaways from your partner and yourself.

[larry10s]

Originally Posted by ProgressoR

I like trying things on serve, and strategy and dubs never allowed me that.

The ONLY thing i thank dubs for is spending time at the net, that has helped my net game, but not the transition game, in single i find the transition and first volley the hardest, and you dont do that much in dubs, you usually are already at the net.


i played a ton of badminton dubs and essentially lots of it is similar, be attacking, push opponents around, move together in attack and defence. In dubs if your partner doesnt have clue of how to move as a pair, then you cannot move anywhere yourself without leaving the court open.

well dubs is the perfect place to practice your first volley and transition game.
if you serve and volley you get a first volley every time you serve.
you can try things on your serve to see what type of returns you get.

if you return and come in you are transitioning to the net and will probably have a first volley to hit

as you play with better players (as you get better) your partners will understand doubles strategy
then you can use hand signals,I formation, austrlian etc.
it gets to be real fun

[domosborn]

Haha, its a real shame that doubles is all focussed on my weakest parts of my game :P like tailor made nto for me, but I guess I have to persevere and maybe I will learn to love it... maybe...
Perhaps will come with maturity (god im counting a lot on that :P)

[dominikk1985]

The chilenian team Massu/gonzalez won the 04 olympics with no. net game. the just both kept ripping 100 MPH FHs at their opponents.

[ProgressoR]

Originally Posted by larry10s

well dubs is the perfect place to practice your first volley and transition game.
if you serve and volley you get a first volley every time you serve.
you can try things on your serve to see what type of returns you get.

if you return and come in you are transitioning to the net and will probably have a first volley to hit

as you play with better players (as you get better) your partners will understand doubles strategy
then you can use hand signals,I formation, austrlian etc.
it gets to be real fun

yes this is right and I wish it was the case for me, but in my experience the people i play with would have heart attack if we were both at net. One back one at net come hell or high water.

If i am serving or returning, that means my partner is at net and you can be sure he/she will stay there and never poach till the point is over.

You are right with better players where you can do this it would be more fun.

[spaceman_spiff]

Originally Posted by ProgressoR

yes this is right and I wish it was the case for me, but in my experience the people i play with would have heart attack if we were both at net. One back one at net come hell or high water.

If i am serving or returning, that means my partner is at net and you can be sure he/she will stay there and never poach till the point is over.

You are right with better players where you can do this it would be more fun.

When you play with people like that, come into the net and then, when they look shocked, just say "well one of us had to step up and hit a volley."

When I'm playing socially with people I know well, if I get my opponents to pop one up, I yell "smash it!" It's a light-hearted wind-up for my partner, but at the same time it tells him/her that it's ok to be agressive and come across to hit putaways. Even when they do give it a good whack, I still say "none of that tippy tappy stuff; let's see a real smash." It's just a way to make a joke and make a point at the same time.

After playing with me for a while, people tend to be more agressive at net even with other partners.

[North]

It's not just the skills. I have very good volleys, placement, approach, etc - all the stuff you need to excel at doubles. I play singles almost exclusively (lots of S&V, coming to net) and opponents have mentioned that I must be an awesome doubles player. Not. I'm not terrible at doubles but I do not play at the level of my singles play by any stretch. If for some reason I could only play doubles the rest of my life, I might consider finding another sport.

There is a sort of peer pressure or sports-related "political correctness" in attitudes toward team sports, which doubles essentially is. For some reason, people will think there is something wrong with you if you absolutely prefer individual sports because the majority of people like team sports. It's just a matter of personality as to what you prefer.

If you are stuck having to play doubles, try to find a partner (you may have to try a lot of partners) who is content to let you be the dominant player so you can take 2/3 of the balls (or thereabouts). You want someone who can consistently set you up to be the shotmaker and not inhibit your willingness to take risks. Egos being what they are, it is admittedly very difficult to find someone like that who is fine with a very supporting role. The idea is to make the experience for you as close to singles as it can be with a second person on your side of the net.

Good luck!

[domosborn]

I just wanna play every shot and its frustration too, I know i must be a NIGHTMARE to partner haha, just wish I had more opp. for singles, I MUCH prefer it...

[spaceman_spiff]

Originally Posted by North

It's not just the skills. I have very good volleys, placement, approach, etc - all the stuff you need to excel at doubles. I play singles almost exclusively (lots of S&V, coming to net) and opponents have mentioned that I must be an awesome doubles player. Not. I'm not terrible at doubles but I do not play at the level of my singles play by any stretch. If for some reason I could only play doubles the rest of my life, I might consider finding another sport.

There is a sort of peer pressure or sports-related "political correctness" in attitudes toward team sports, which doubles essentially is. For some reason, people will think there is something wrong with you if you absolutely prefer individual sports because the majority of people like team sports. It's just a matter of personality as to what you prefer.

If you are stuck having to play doubles, try to find a partner (you may have to try a lot of partners) who is content to let you be the dominant player so you can take 2/3 of the balls (or thereabouts). You want someone who can consistently set you up to be the shotmaker and not inhibit your willingness to take risks. Egos being what they are, it is admittedly very difficult to find someone like that who is fine with a very supporting role. The idea is to make the experience for you as close to singles as it can be with a second person on your side of the net.

Good luck!

Have you ever thought that, if your partner is setting you up for shots, maybe he/she is the dominant player?

Whenever I play doubles with a weaker partner, he/she usually ends up hitting more winners than I do. That's because I'm hitting serves and returns that make our opponents pop up easy sitters. But, does that mean I'm not the dominant player since I'm not the one hitting the final ball?

The best doubles teams I've ever seen were the ones where both players could set up a point and both could put it away. In the pairs with a dominant player, he/she usually hit fewer winners than the other. His/her shots either caused forced errors or set the weaker partner up for a putaway.

You want to put away points (i.e., you want a partner that will set you up), but do you ever work to set them up? Do you ever thank your partner when he/she sets you up with a putaway (even if you miss it) or puts your opponents on the back foot for you?

It's not that other people don't like a dominant player. It's that they don't want to do all the work and have someone else take all the credit. They also don't want to lose because a "dominant" player constantly gets out of position and leaves huge holes because he/she wants to hit every shot rather than trusting someone else to do their job.

[larry10s]

Originally Posted by spaceman_spiff

Have you ever thought that, if your partner is setting you up for shots, maybe he/she is the dominant player?

Whenever I play doubles with a weaker partner, he/she usually ends up hitting more winners than I do. That's because I'm hitting serves and returns that make our opponents pop up easy sitters. But, does that mean I'm not the dominant player since I'm not the one hitting the final ball?

The best doubles teams I've ever seen were the ones where both players could set up a point and both could put it away. In the pairs with a dominant player, he/she usually hit fewer winners than the other. His/her shots either caused forced errors or set the weaker partner up for a putaway.

You want to put away points (i.e., you want a partner that will set you up), but do you ever work to set them up? Do you ever thank your partner when he/she sets you up with a putaway (even if you miss it) or puts your opponents on the back foot for you?

It's not that other people don't like a dominant player. It's that they don't want to do all the work and have someone else take all the credit. They also don't want to lose because a "dominant" player constantly gets out of position and leaves huge holes because he/she wants to hit every shot rather than trusting someone else to do their job.

well said
my sentiments exactly

[LuckyR]

Originally Posted by domosborn

I just wanna play every shot and its frustration too, I know i must be a NIGHTMARE to partner haha, just wish I had more opp. for singles, I MUCH prefer it...

To my view you have three options:

1- Improve your opportunities for playing singles

2- Play doubles like a singles player (preferably with a partner who also is a singles player). This used to be a recipe for disaster, when playing against classic doubles players, but with the modern game many legitimately play this style: two back for all shots and hit passing winners and swinging volleys off of weak popups.

3- Buckle down and actually learn to play classic doubles strategy. Despite your posts to the contrary you don't seem motivated in this area.

[tennismonkey]

+1 spaceman. same thing when the server hits a great serve, i hit a weak return back and the net guy hits an easy volley winner. i don't say "great volley" -- i say "great serve".

[jdubbs]

I played 3 sets yesterday in sort of a round robin, lets get together for Wednesday sort of way.

By the last set, I was so frustrated I just wanted to get the he.ll of the court and go home.

I'm not a great player, but my partner, who actually seemed like he had some skills, missed so many easy shots that we were losing game after game after game.

There's nothing worse than sitting there watching your partner try to poach and hit the ball in the bottom of the net on almost every point.

It was serve, maybe hit the return in, and point over almost every point. Wow, that's fun!

Finally, I got to play singles for 30 minutes and it was so much better.

I can't get in any rhythm playing doubles. It blows, but I use it as an oppty to S&V and practice different serves.

[North]

Originally Posted by spaceman_spiff

Have you ever thought that, if your partner is setting you up for shots, maybe he/she is the dominant player?

Whenever I play doubles with a weaker partner, he/she usually ends up hitting more winners than I do. That's because I'm hitting serves and returns that make our opponents pop up easy sitters. But, does that mean I'm not the dominant player since I'm not the one hitting the final ball?

The best doubles teams I've ever seen were the ones where both players could set up a point and both could put it away. In the pairs with a dominant player, he/she usually hit fewer winners than the other. His/her shots either caused forced errors or set the weaker partner up for a putaway.

You want to put away points (i.e., you want a partner that will set you up), but do you ever work to set them up? Do you ever thank your partner when he/she sets you up with a putaway (even if you miss it) or puts your opponents on the back foot for you?

It's not that other people don't like a dominant player. It's that they don't want to do all the work and have someone else take all the credit. They also don't want to lose because a "dominant" player constantly gets out of position and leaves huge holes because he/she wants to hit every shot rather than trusting someone else to do their job.

True. That is why there is such a difference between singles and doubles, much more than just a different skill set. Temperament and personality are far more important, I think. Many people (the majority) like team sports. Some people just don't and prefer being on their own and that's OK. The good doubles play you describe is that of a well-meshed team at work and is great to watch when it is played well.

My suggestion for the OP to find a way to make doubles tolerable is perhaps more whistling in the dark than anything else because, as you rightly point out, people generally don't want to do work others will get the glory for. I was lucky enough to find a partner (when I played in a company-sponsored doubles only league when asked at work) whose personality was comfortable letting me dominate, but I was very careful to not leave huge holes and simply leave my partner to clean up tactical messes on the court. As it worked out, I got to hit most of the finishing shots and we had a pretty good time playing together.

Btw Spiff, I miss Calvin and Hobbes - especially the transmogrifier.

[fuzz nation]

Originally Posted by dominikk1985

The chilenian team Massu/gonzalez won the 04 olympics with no. net game. the just both kept ripping 100 MPH FHs at their opponents.

This is a really good observation because it's something that the pros can get away with while many of us "mere mortals" just can't duplicate it. Those killers can hit such nasty rips from the back court that even great players with phenomenal skill can't set up to drive a volley through them in response. That style of play forces defensive volleys that sit up short like a free lunch, but most recreational players just aren't that strong.

I'll come back later and leave a nice big brain dump on some aspects of doubles, but I just caught this post from dominikk and wanted to throw my first penny into the fountain. There's soooooooo much going on in the realm of "good doubles" that I think it can make for very constructive conversation.

News at eleven!...

[Angle Queen]

+2 spaceman. Good points, all.

And I'll add a few other non-strategy things that can help improve someone's doubles game.

First, be the kind of person people want to play/partner with. Keep loud egos and emotions in check and freely pass out encouragement and deserved compliments. Make good line calls, be on-time and bring a fresh can of balls.

Second, don't always wait for opportunities to come your way. Get on the phone, call some people. Send out some emails. Put together a doubles "date" of your own. Even if people can't make the day/time you've selected, they'll learn that you're interested in playing with them...and they'll be more inclined to call you next time they're looking for a partner or fourth.

Third, play/partner with anyone and everyone. At least the first time. Unless there's such bad history that you can't stand the thought of spending any time on the same court with them. Remember, it's not a marriage proposal. It's just 1.5hr or 2hr of your time...trying to working on something you say you want to improve.

Fourth, try to have fun! Social doubles can be as fun and competitive as league or more organized play.

And finally, always look for a learning (or teaching) moment. If you find yourself stuck on a court with much weaker players, use it as an opportunity to fine tune some placement and pace adjustment skills of your own. If you're the weakest one on court, stow the pride and openly admire the skills on display. Ask them for advice (you'd be surprised how willingly it might be given).

Good luck!

[Off The Wall]

Originally Posted by Angle Queen

+2 spaceman. Good points, all.

And I'll add a few other non-strategy things that can help improve someone's doubles game.

First, be the kind of person people want to play/partner with. Keep loud egos and emotions in check and freely pass out encouragement and deserved compliments. Make good line calls, be on-time and bring a fresh can of balls.

Second, don't always wait for opportunities to come your way. Get on the phone, call some people. Send out some emails. Put together a doubles "date" of your own. Even if people can't make the day/time you've selected, they'll learn that you're interested in playing with them...and they'll be more inclined to call you next time they're looking for a partner or fourth.

Third, play/partner with anyone and everyone. At least the first time. Unless there's such bad history that you can't stand the thought of spending any time on the same court with them. Remember, it's not a marriage proposal. It's just 1.5hr or 2hr of your time...trying to working on something you say you want to improve.

Fourth, try to have fun! Social doubles can be as fun and competitive as league or more organized play.

And finally, always look for a learning (or teaching) moment. If you find yourself stuck on a court with much weaker players, use it as an opportunity to fine tune some placement and pace adjustment skills of your own. If you're the weakest one on court, stow the pride and openly admire the skills on display. Ask them for advice (you'd be surprised how willingly it might be given).

Good luck!

Good points AQ. Under just about any condition, you can find a way to have fun

[domosborn]

Wow thanks for all the tips everyone! Just hope i can put some into practice :P