A 20 year old coach? Shock!!!

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

Ok, this is from a thread about racquets, of all things, but I wondered what peoples' thoughts on this might be. Esp. John Y, Kiteboard, Ash, TenCoachFL etc who have, ahem, strong opinions on how strokes are taught...

Originally Posted by vsbabolat

A 20 year old coach!

I don't see what is so shocking about this. At the last coaching accreditation course I attended there were a couple of young guys who were both 19. They were both coaching juniors already (it was a level upgrade course) and had excellent technique and a real passion for coaching.

What they also had, from their students point of view, was credibility

These guys play the local open tournaments and do well. Juniors see this and want to listen to what they say. (one of them crushed me in the semis last weekend, actually )

Thing is, they have been coached professionally by both private coaches and TA (tennis australia) coaches since they were about 6 years old. These boys have seen a huge range of coaching techniques and know what works.

Would you rather be coached by a 55 year old ex touring pro who learned to play with a wooden racquet and has made a career out of improving the forehands of midweek ladies 3.5s?

[SFrazeur]

You cannot lump all 20-something coaches in one barrel and assume they are good coaches. Neither can you group former high level players in a barrel who first learned to play with wood racquet and call them basket feeders.

-SF

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

i wasn't doing either of those things, actually, I was kind of hoping for a bit more input...

[kiteboard]

Well, it's called "credibility". Experience, even if the current playing level is low, counts for: whatever. A young guy, even if he is a great coach, does not have the same experience, although, as you suggest, he may have more "bond". I was working with a Wash. univ. player. He asked me many questions, and rapidly improved, and was soon beating me easily, within months, and won an open tournament. When I first got him he was 4.5. He went up to open in months time, but that was due to his own earnest hard work, and open style, not me. I just drilled him down to nothing. Three hours once, serve and volley, 50 serves to a single ball target, on each line, for 350 serves. He wasn't even tired or sore. Spent the whole time returning his shot. Very difficult, to make such a fast change in results, but he did do it, by being willing/able to change tactics to what worked for each opp., such as grinding, attacking, mix, fh attack, etc.

[Mountain Ghost]

The only problem with any "young" coach or teaching pro (meaning even older aged pros who are relatively new to teaching), is that while they can be great at teaching/parroting what they themselves do, or have been taught to do, they don't have much "lab experience" in the way of teaching tons of sturdents with different mind/body types and abilities, where they could personally experiment and see what works from MANY different "angles."

Each of my students walks away with a daily "checklist" of what they need to focus on (in order of importance) when they are working on that specific stroke, and every player's checklist is different.

The only other thing I must say is I believe the "best" pros and coaches out there are BORN with a unique set of sight, intuitive and "engineering"/"sculpting" skills, and those are the ones who move the sport forward at ALL levels of play. Some might go so far as to say they are "misfits"! I believe a 20 year-old "enlightened" one could a great coach, but I find young (sometimes even great) players who teach tend to offer a lot of mostly "good" information without a well-developed ability to accurately "read" each individual student.

MG

[Manus Domini]

my coach is 20-ish. Under him, my backhand has become the 2nd best on the team, my forehand far better, my serve more variety, and the ability to volley. If only I didn't have mental blocks, I'd be playing singles

But my coach is great. He is figuring out how to teach a stroke in the best way for me, but the couple seconds he spends thinking of a way to phrase something pays off.

[LeeD]

Young in age tennis coaches should stick with what they know, and teach "modern" tennis to those under around 30.
They haven't experienced teaching players older and injured, stiff and slow, and assume all of us can cover alley to alley and hit with topspin every time.

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

I think that's a very valid point. The boys I know are teaching juniors in the 10 - 14 yr age group and that seems to be working well. As far as I know, they haven't been given any of our older clients.
(that is left to crocks like me!)

[mad dog1]

Originally Posted by LeeD

Young in age tennis coaches should stick with what they know, and teach "modern" tennis to those under around 30.
They haven't experienced teaching players older and injured, stiff and slow, and assume all of us can cover alley to alley and hit with topspin every time.

true...true...

[wihamilton]

Ultimately it comes down to the value the coach provides to the student.

People use things like playing ability, coaching experience, etc. to make an evaluation of the quality of the instruction they'll receive from the coach in question. Young coaches obviously don't have as much experience as their older peers, and the assumption is that more experience means higher-caliber instruction.

I started FYB when I was 25 years old (29 now) and was acutely aware of this last assumption. It's one reason (among many others) we give away so much stuff for free. People try out our stuff, it works, so my age isn't an issue anymore.

[HunterST]

Originally Posted by wihamilton

Ultimately it comes down to the value the coach provides to the student.

People use things like playing ability, coaching experience, etc. to make an evaluation of the quality of the instruction they'll receive from the coach in question. Young coaches obviously don't have as much experience as their older peers, and the assumption is that more experience means higher-caliber instruction.

I started FYB when I was 25 years old (29 now) and was acutely aware of this last assumption. It's one reason (among many others) we give away so much stuff for free. People try out our stuff, it works, so my age isn't an issue anymore.

I don't know, Will. I'm not sure if I can continue to receive advice from a 29 year old geezer.

[wihamilton]

Originally Posted by HunterST

I don't know, Will. I'm not sure if I can continue to receive advice from a 29 year old geezer.

Ya I hear ya. I've stopped getting carded for rated R movies. Single tear.

[vsbabolat]

Originally Posted by Timbo's hopeless slice

Ok, this is from a thread about racquets, of all things, but I wondered what peoples' thoughts on this might be. Esp. John Y, Kiteboard, Ash, TenCoachFL etc who have, ahem, strong opinions on how strokes are taught...



I don't see what is so shocking about this. At the last coaching accreditation course I attended there were a couple of young guys who were both 19. They were both coaching juniors already (it was a level upgrade course) and had excellent technique and a real passion for coaching.

What they also had, from their students point of view, was credibility

These guys play the local open tournaments and do well. Juniors see this and want to listen to what they say. (one of them crushed me in the semis last weekend, actually )

Thing is, they have been coached professionally by both private coaches and TA (tennis australia) coaches since they were about 6 years old. These boys have seen a huge range of coaching techniques and know what works.

Would you rather be coached by a 55 year old ex touring pro who learned to play with a wooden racquet and has made a career out of improving the forehands of midweek ladies 3.5s?

I was in a conversation discussing the Max200G and sevral players who used that racquet on Tour BID. Rock Strongo wrote his coach had negative feeling toward how a couple of those had played tennis who had used the Max200G and that he had never heard of another I had just remembered.

Originally Posted by Rock Strongo

My coach is like 20 years old. Sure, he's good player, coach and all, but I'm pretty sure he has NO knowledge of who Jan Apell is. Even I have only read his name a couple of times and only knows that he was quite a formidable doubles player!

The reason why I was shocked was because I did not expect Strongo who I believe is 17 years old to be exclusively currently coached by a 20 year old who had such strong feeling toward Steffi Graf or McEnroe who he has never seen play in their primes

I first began coaching at 16 when I was student. I do not coach currently but I help out and work out with some juniors when I can. I have no idea who Strongo's coach is, his level of play, his playing experience, his coaching experience, or coaching ability.

For the record I have been coached by former Tour players who played world group Davis Cup and players who were very average player in their own right but were students of our wonderful sport.

I think you have over reacted to a off the cuff sentence that means nothing.

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

I actually thought you raised an interesting point that was worth discussing elsewhere. Folk appear to agree.

Who is over reacting, again?

[BobFL]

Originally Posted by Timbo's hopeless slice

I actually thought you raised an interesting point that was worth discussing elsewhere. Folk appear to agree.

Who is over reacting, again?

Clearly you. You have doubts about your competence, knowledge and coaching abilities and that is the reason why only one short sentence from VS 'triggered' this thread. Absolutely nothing sinister just my opinion. Btw, I firmly believe that 20y is way to young to teach tennis (or anything else).

[vsbabolat]

Originally Posted by Timbo's hopeless slice

I actually thought you raised an interesting point that was worth discussing elsewhere. Folk appear to agree.

Who is over reacting, again?

You are over reacting.

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

Originally Posted by BobFL

Clearly you. You have doubts about your competence, knowledge and coaching abilities and that is the reason why only one short sentence from VS 'triggered' this thread. Absolutely nothing sinister just my opinion. Btw, I firmly believe that 20y is way to young to teach tennis (or anything else).

How the hell do you figure any of that? I am very comfortable with my tennis in all its forms, playing, coaching, watching. I was interested in what other people had to say (thanks for your input, actually) about younger players coaching.

It doesn't relate to me at all, I'm 44 and never made it past local open tournaments, much less into futures or the tour, so I don't really belong in either category.

I like what someone above said regarding 'bond' and I don't see a problem with younger pros teaching fundamentals to beginners. Private lessons for mature clients wishing to improve their level of play I'm not so sure about.

Hence my question. I certainly wasn't attacking VsBabolat! As I said, his comment just caught my interest.

Sheesh!

[ProgressoR]

reading the OP it is clear Timbo is supporting the positives of the young coaches he knows, not putting them down, if he was insecure he would not be supporting these young whipper snappers.

[Ash_Smith]

Originally Posted by BobFL

Btw, I firmly believe that 20y is way to young to teach tennis (or anything else).

I started assisting my coach teach junior lessons when I was 14, so by the time I was full time at 20 I had 6 years experience of teaching tennis (which by the sounds of it is more than Will H has now!).

I appreciate that it can be a barrier for some people, usually older folks who think "what can this youngster possibly teach me!" I have oftern found that younger kids definitely have a better affinity with younger coaches too.

Cheers

[dominikk1985]

who cares if he plays good tennis and has a coaching licence.

If that player started to play at age 6 and has a national ranking or even better he can easily teach tennis if he has the coaching skills.

20yo players are in their prime and know everything about the stroke.

For anyone till 5.0 level or any kid below 16 they are certainly suitable if they have the coaching and playing skills.

If we talk about coaching ATP players I view it differently. at that level authority and experience are very important to get the respect of the player. If the coach is younger than him maybe he will have problems respecting him.

but this only applies to pros. A 30yo rec player has no business rejecting advice from a 20yo competitive player.