Safin, THE MOST overrated player EVER!

[Achilles82]

Ok, enough is enough. I see all the time on this forum people talking about how talented, and how great player Safin is. "Is Safin more talented then Federer, Is Safin better then Djokovic, Safin is this, Safin is that" ENOUGH ALLREADY!

Fist of all, I LIKE Safin. He was a good player, I respect him. But don't talk about him as like he was one of the greatest EVER. Safin is not in top 15 of all time.


Safin won 2 grand slams, 5 masters titles, and on most of masters didn't even reach QF. On 41 grand slams he played, only 9 times he passed 4th round!
Yes, he beat RF in AO 2005, BIG WHOOP, so on that 1 great win, you consider him as one of the greatest of all time? And he was No1 for only a couple of weeks. Since 2006 he couldn't stay in top 20! I mean he was 26, that's supposed to be best age for a tennis player. And he couldn't be even in top freakin' 20! Are you kidding me?


Stop comparing him with Roger, Novak, Nadal, even Murray. They are all at least 5 times better players then Safin. If Murray played between 2000 and 2005, he would've won like at least 5 grand slams, and be No1 for long period of time.


Players greater then Safin in tennis history (in no particular order):

1.Federer
2.Nadal
3.Djokovic
4.Murray
6.Sampras
7.Agassi
8.Lendl
9.Bjorn
10.McEnroe
11.Wilander
12.Courier
13.Edberg
14.Connors
15.Roddick
16.Becker
17.Vilas
18.Nastase
19.Ashe
...

[Breaker]

Originally Posted by Achilles82

Players greater then Safin in tennis history (in no particular order):


4.Murray

4. Murray

4. Murray

Can't focus on topic at hand until this is addressed.

If Murray played between 2000 and 2005, he would've won like at least 5 grand slams, and be No1 for long period of time.

Safin is closer to being GOAT and Prime Minister of Canada than this being anywhere near true.

[Shaolin]

Originally Posted by Breaker

Can't focus on topic at hand until this is addressed.

Having Murray in there ruins all credibility.

/thread

[got spin?]

I think if Fed wouldnt have come along on the tour Roddick would have dominated for several years and probably would still be top 3 at least. Federer just completely destroyed him and his mentality.

[Achilles82]

Originally Posted by Breaker

Can't focus on topic at hand until this is addressed.

Ok, I'm going to address it.

Remember I've said in grand slams Safin passed 4th round only 9 times from 41 played tournaments? Well, Andy dd that from 23 appearances. He didn't win grand slam YET, but he is only 24, and will win I guarantee it.

Safin played 87 times masters tournaments, and reached QF or above 16 times. Which is really not that impressive. He won 5 masters tournaments, which is good, but...

Andy played 49 masters so far, and passed QF 21 times. He won 6 masters, and I repeat, he is ONLY 24. Has at least 3 more years to play at TOP level.

Andy only problem is he is playing in time where you have 3 No1 players. If Andy played 10 years ago, he would be No1 easily.

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by got spin?

I think if Fed wouldnt have come along on the tour Roddick would have dominated for several years and probably would still be top 3 at least. Federer just completely destroyed him and his mentality.

Remember Hewitt? The only reason Hewitt didn't finish 2004 as world number 2 was because he started the year at number 17, while Roddick was always in the top 2 throughout 2004 and wasn't meeting Federer until finals. As for 2005, Hewitt missed the entire clay-court season and the last few months of the year, but he was also better than Roddick that year when he played.

[Tennis_Monk]

Simple answer is NO.

Safin is not the MOST overrated player.

[Achilles82]

Originally Posted by got spin?

I think if Fed wouldnt have come along on the tour Roddick would have dominated for several years and probably would still be top 3 at least. Federer just completely destroyed him and his mentality.

Listen, if you're good then you're good. There is no excuse. Andy is Ok player, has top 5 talent, but not really in Roger, Nadal, Novak category. Look at Novak. Lost so many times to Roger, and especially Rafa, and yet he came back, and became No1. When you've got it you got it. If you don't then you don't.

Fine, loose to Roger or Rafa or Novak, but you need to be able to beat at LEAST other players if you want to be in top 5, which Andy couldn't do.

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by Achilles82

Ok, I'm going to address it.

Remember I've said in grand slams Safin passed 4th round only 9 times from 41 played tournaments? Well, Andy dd that from 23 appearances. He didn't win grand slam YET, but he is only 24, and will win I guarantee it.

Safin played 87 times masters tournaments, and reached QF or above 16 times. Which is really not that impressive. He won 5 masters tournaments, which is good, but...

Andy played 49 masters so far, and passed QF 21 times. He won 6 masters, and I repeat, he is ONLY 24. Has at least 3 more years to play at TOP level.

Andy only problem is he is playing in time where you have 3 No1 players. If Andy played 10 years ago, he would be No1 easily.

Yet Roddick, like Safin, has 5 masters series despite the much greater longevity of Roddick's career. Roddick has 1 major to Safin's 2, and 1 Davis Cup to Safin's 2. Roddick has spent 4 weeks longer at number 1 than Safin, though, 13 weeks compared to 9 weeks.

Safin, for all the underachievement, achieved a lot in tennis, and he was always very entertaining to watch, whether he was playing brilliant tennis, getting frustrated or having a meltdown.

[Achilles82]

Originally Posted by Breaker

Safin is closer to being GOAT and Prime Minister of Canada than this being anywhere near true.

Murray is consistent, which is what makes a great player. Safin wasn't.

Andy played so far 3 finals, lost to Roger 2 times, and Novak 1 time. He played 4 semi finals, lost 3 times to Nadal, and 1 time against Roddick on grass.

Nadal, Roger and Novak are only Andys problem, nothing else.

[Achilles82]

Originally Posted by Mustard

Safin, for all the underachievement, achieved a lot in tennis, and he was always very entertaining to watch, whether he was playing brilliant tennis, getting frustrated or having a meltdown.

If you wanna watch tennis so you could see drama, or players getting melt down, that's fine, but that has nothing to do with how talented Safin is.


Roger, Rafa, Novak, you can't even compare Safin to them.

[10ACE]

Safin was 90% physical ability 10% mental on the court. He needed a head coach. I liked his game and his humor. Not overrated.

[Achilles82]

Just to make 1 thing clear.


I'm not saying he is overrated player, in sense that he wasn't top player. He definitely was, and I liked to watch him.

All I'm saying, he wasn't in premier tennis players category (Sampras, Agassi, Roger, Novak, Nadal, Bjorn, McEnroe etc...)


He was more like in Roddick, Chang, Ivanisevic, Rafter category.... more or less

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by Achilles82

If you wanna watch tennis so you could see drama, or players getting melt down, that's fine, but that has nothing to do with how talented Safin is.

Safin won 2 majors, 5 masters series, 2 Davis Cups, 15 career singles titles overall and spent 9 weeks as world number 1.

I'm sorry, but that's an excellent career, especially for someone considered a big underachiever.

Originally Posted by Achilles82

Roger, Rafa, Novak, you can't even compare Safin to them.

Safin beat prime Federer in the semi finals of the 2005 Australian Open. As for Djokovic, Safin is 2-0 against him, the second match of which was a straight sets win for Safin at 2008 Wimbledon of all places, when Djokovic was world number 3 and Safin was well past his best.

[TMF]

I see the opposite...he underrated. He's always been called as an underachievered which cannot be considered as an overrated player.

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by Achilles82

Just to make 1 thing clear.


I'm not saying he is overrated player, in sense that he wasn't top player. He definitely was, and I liked to watch him.

All I'm saying, he wasn't in premier tennis players category (Sampras, Agassi, Roger, Novak, Nadal, Bjorn, McEnroe etc...)


He was more like in Roddick, Chang, Ivanisevic, Rafter category.... more or less

Has anyone put Safin's achievements up there with Sampras, Agassi, Federer, Djokovic, Nadal, Borg and McEnroe?

[got spin?]

I still think Roddick would have been a sensation if it werent fed. I mean Roddick has confidence issues, of course he lost to federer in alot of finals but that shoudnt have stopped him from creating a Roddick Federer era and eliminated the Rafa Roger rivalry before it even started.

[JustBob]

Regardless of the topic, anytime I see "MOST.... EVER!" (in small caps even) in a thread title, there's a 99.986245321 % probability that said thread cannot be taken seriously. With this thread, that probability has now risen to 99.986245322 %

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by got spin?

I still think Roddick would have been a sensation if it werent fed. I mean Roddick has confidence issues, of course he lost to federer in alot of finals but that shoudnt have stopped him from creating a Roddick Federer era and eliminated the Rafa Roger rivalry before it even started.

As I mentioned upthread, the biggest loser from prime Federer's presence was Hewitt, not Roddick, especially if we're talking about 2004-2005.

[T1000]

You put Murray and Roddick on that list but not Hewitt? 2 grand slams from each Hewitt and Safin is better than 0 and 1 no matter how you twist it.

and Mustard is right, Hewitt dominated Roddick when they were both in their primes (04-05) Hewitt would've benefited more