Grand Slam equivalents

[Carlo Giovanni Colussi]

Originally Posted by Moose Malloy

so was the bad call the reason Kodes lost the 3rd set 6-1? Its a pretty big assumption to say Kodes would have won in 3 had he gone up 2 sets to love ...

This is what Kodes himself stated in Petr Kolar's biography of the Czech.
And it is true that being robbed of a 2 sets to 0 lead
has a great effect on anyone's mind : it can explain in part Kodes's failure in the 3rd set.
Had Kodes officially led 2 sets to 0, his victory would have been easier and the odds of winning in straight sets wouldn't have been nil given Kodes's great form then.
Of course it's a big assumption but this is Kodes's own feeling and he can be right.
However one never will know
(all the assumptions are possible : even a Kodes's loss after a 2 sets to 0 lead)

[urban]

If i remember it right, Kodes had complaints quite often about umpires and linesmen. I think, that he also said, that he was robbed by linesmen in the Davis Cup interzone final with Australia in 1973. Wasn't the nicest man out on court, but as Carlo said, was a sort of proto-Connors in his aggressive returning and powerfull baseline game.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by timnz

I just heard an interview with Ken Rosewall that was just conducted in the last week or so. He was asked what was his most special victory. He said, and this will surprise you, that the WCT finals victories of 1971 and 1972 were. I seem to also remember that Newcombe said that the 1974 WCT finals win was his most special victory.

WCT and the Masters were fantastic events, well in line or above the AO.

From 1970 to 1990 I´d go with

Top Tier: Wimbledon, US Open,Roland Garros
Second Tier:Australian,WCT and Masters
Third Tier: Philadelphia,Johannesburg,Barcelona,Montecarlo,Bos ton,Indianapolis,Rome,Canadian,Hamburg,Tokyo Indoor, Las Vegas ,Palm Springs.

Some years the third tier events were better than some other years.But , in a 20 years stretch, those were the events that performed better.No doubt about that.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by hoodjem

Yep! I agree wholeheartedly. I've often said it was the best match I've ever seen.

"Glued to my seat, holding my breath on every point I was."

Will you bring it to TT?

[Carlo Giovanni Colussi]

Originally Posted by urban

If i remember it right, Kodes had complaints quite often about umpires and linesmen. I think, that he also said, that he was robbed by linesmen in the Davis Cup interzone final with Australia in 1973. Wasn't the nicest man out on court, but as Carlo said, was a sort of proto-Connors in his aggressive returning and powerfull baseline game.

Hello urban,

absolutely in Petr Kolar's book Jan Kodes A Journey to Glory from behind the Iron Curtain, http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...4L._SS500_.jpg, Kodes also claimed that he was robbed of a set to Laver's advantage in this 1973 Davis Cup semifinal opener.

[spinovic]

There's no doubt that the Aussie Open wasn't on the same level as the other majors in the past. One needs look no further than the fact that many top players didn't even play in the tournament, while hardly missing the others.

Borg only played Australia one time, while never missing the other three with the exception of the '77 French.

Johnny Mac played there 5 times, with the first being in 1983.

Connors (2), Vilas (5), Gerulaitis (4), Ashe (6)

It looks like around '83 is when the Aussie Open started getting the top players and deeper fields on a consistent basis.

Even Agassi didn't play there until 1995 and only played in 9 in his career.

While the Aussie Open is still the least prestigious of the 4 slams (IMO), I think the modern era has closed the gap. Still though, it is Wimbledon - US Open - Roland Garros - Australian Open.

I think the Olympics is on a similar path thanks to the current generation and the importance they place on it. While I don't think it will ever be treated as a slam, nor should it be, it is certainly a more prestigious accomplishment than in the past.

[Carlo Giovanni Colussi]

Hello spinovic,

here is an extract (perhaps slightly edited since my original input) of what I wrote in 2007 in Wikipedia :

The first tournaments of the Australasian Championships suffered from the competition of the other Australasian tournaments, and before 1905 all the Australian states had their own championships, the first being organised in 1880 in Melbourne and called the Championship of the Colony of Victoria (later become the Championship of Victoria). This tournament stayed the most important in Australia, including the Australasian Championships, until at least World War I, in those years the best two players by far, from "Down Under" the Australian Norman Brookes (whose name is now written on the gentlemen's singles cup) and the New Zealander Anthony Wilding, almost didn't play this tournament. Brookes came once and won in 1911 and Wilding entered and won the competition twice (1906 and 1909). Their meetings in the Victorian Championships (or at Wimbledon) were the summits which helped to determine who was the best Australasian players. Even when the Australasian Championships were held in Hastings, New Zealand, in 1912, Wilding, though three times Wimbledon champion, didn't come back to his home country. It was a recurrent problem for all the players of the era, Brookes only went to Europe three times, where he reached the Wimbledon Challenge Round once and then won Wimbledon twice. Thus many players had never played the Austral(as)ian amateur or open championships: the Renshaws, the Dohertys, William Larned, Maurice McLoughlin, Beals Wright, Bill Johnston, Bill Tilden, René Lacoste, Henri Cochet, Bobby Riggs, Jack Kramer, Ted Schroeder, Pancho Gonzales, Budge Patty, Manuel Santana, Jan Kodes and others while Brookes, Ellsworth Vines, Donald Budge, Jaroslav Drobny, Manuel Orantes, Ilie Năstase at 35 years old, and Bjorn Borg just came once.

Beginning in 1969, when the first Australian Open was held on the Milton Courts at Brisbane, the tournament was open to all players, including professionals who were not allowed to play the traditional circuit. Nevertheless, except for the 1969 and 1971 tournaments, many of the best players missed this championship until 1982, because of the remoteness, the inconvenient dates (around Christmas and New Year's Day), and the low prize money. In 1970, George MacCall's National Tennis League, which employed Rod Laver, Ken Rosewall, Andrés Gimeno, Pancho Gonzales, Roy Emerson, and Fred Stolle, prevented its players from entering the tournament because the guarantees were insufficient, and the tournament was ultimately won by Arthur Ashe.

In 1983, Ivan Lendl, John McEnroe, and Mats Wilander entered the tournament. Wilander won the singles title and both his Davis Cup singles rubbers in the Swedish loss to Australia at Kooyong shortly after. Following the 1983 Australian Open, the International Tennis Federation prompted the Lawn Tennis Association of Australia to change the site of the tournament, because the Kooyong stadium was then inappropriate to serve such a big event, and in 1988 the tournament was first held at Flinders Park (later renamed Melbourne Park) on Rebound Ace. The change of the venue also lead to a change of the court surface from grass to a hard court surface known as Rebound Ace. Mats Wilander was the only player to win the tournament on both grass and hard courts ...
Before the Melbourne Park stadium era, tournament dates fluctuated as well, in particular in the early years because of the climate of each site or exceptional events. For example, the 1919 tournament was held in January 1920 (the 1920 tournament was played in March) and the 1923 tournament in Brisbane took place in August when the weather was not too hot and wet. After a first 1977 tournament was held in December 1976 – January 1977, the organisers chose to move the next tournament forward a few days, then a second 1977 tournament was played (ended on 31 December), but this failed to attract the best players. From 1982 to 1985, the tournament was played in mid-December. Then it was decided to move the next tournament to mid-January (January 1987), which meant there was no tournament in 1986. Since 1987, the Australian Open date has not changed.

About the prestige of the tourney, Tennis Magazine (France) made a survey a few years ago (circa 2011, I don't exactly remember) among the players, be it men or women. The men indeed considered the Australian as the 4th event but
very surprisingly the women put the Australian Open at the first place, ahead of the other Slam events including Wimby..

[kiki]

Originally Posted by kiki

WCT and the Masters were fantastic events, well in line or above the AO.

From 1970 to 1990 I´d go with

Top Tier: Wimbledon, US Open,Roland Garros
Second Tier:Australian,WCT and Masters
Third Tier: Philadelphia,Johannesburg,Barcelona,Montecarlo,Bos ton,Indianapolis,Rome,Canadian,Hamburg,Tokyo Indoor, Las Vegas ,Palm Springs.

Some years the third tier events were bettvoer than some other years.But , in a 20 years stretch, those were the events that performed better.No doubt about that.

Correction: WCT and Masters were second tier amd Phily, Rome, Melbourne and SA open were third tier as the second greatest event in the 4 different surfaces

[BobbyOne]

Originally Posted by Carlo Giovanni Colussi

Hello spinovic,

here is an extract (perhaps slightly edited since my original input) of what I wrote in 2007 in Wikipedia :

The first tournaments of the Australasian Championships suffered from the competition of the other Australasian tournaments, and before 1905 all the Australian states had their own championships, the first being organised in 1880 in Melbourne and called the Championship of the Colony of Victoria (later become the Championship of Victoria). This tournament stayed the most important in Australia, including the Australasian Championships, until at least World War I, in those years the best two players by far, from "Down Under" the Australian Norman Brookes (whose name is now written on the gentlemen's singles cup) and the New Zealander Anthony Wilding, almost didn't play this tournament. Brookes came once and won in 1911 and Wilding entered and won the competition twice (1906 and 1909). Their meetings in the Victorian Championships (or at Wimbledon) were the summits which helped to determine who was the best Australasian players. Even when the Australasian Championships were held in Hastings, New Zealand, in 1912, Wilding, though three times Wimbledon champion, didn't come back to his home country. It was a recurrent problem for all the players of the era, Brookes only went to Europe three times, where he reached the Wimbledon Challenge Round once and then won Wimbledon twice. Thus many players had never played the Austral(as)ian amateur or open championships: the Renshaws, the Dohertys, William Larned, Maurice McLoughlin, Beals Wright, Bill Johnston, Bill Tilden, René Lacoste, Henri Cochet, Bobby Riggs, Jack Kramer, Ted Schroeder, Pancho Gonzales, Budge Patty, Manuel Santana, Jan Kodes and others while Brookes, Ellsworth Vines, Donald Budge, Jaroslav Drobny, Manuel Orantes, Ilie Năstase at 35 years old, and Bjorn Borg just came once.

Beginning in 1969, when the first Australian Open was held on the Milton Courts at Brisbane, the tournament was open to all players, including professionals who were not allowed to play the traditional circuit. Nevertheless, except for the 1969 and 1971 tournaments, many of the best players missed this championship until 1982, because of the remoteness, the inconvenient dates (around Christmas and New Year's Day), and the low prize money. In 1970, George MacCall's National Tennis League, which employed Rod Laver, Ken Rosewall, Andrés Gimeno, Pancho Gonzales, Roy Emerson, and Fred Stolle, prevented its players from entering the tournament because the guarantees were insufficient, and the tournament was ultimately won by Arthur Ashe.

In 1983, Ivan Lendl, John McEnroe, and Mats Wilander entered the tournament. Wilander won the singles title and both his Davis Cup singles rubbers in the Swedish loss to Australia at Kooyong shortly after. Following the 1983 Australian Open, the International Tennis Federation prompted the Lawn Tennis Association of Australia to change the site of the tournament, because the Kooyong stadium was then inappropriate to serve such a big event, and in 1988 the tournament was first held at Flinders Park (later renamed Melbourne Park) on Rebound Ace. The change of the venue also lead to a change of the court surface from grass to a hard court surface known as Rebound Ace. Mats Wilander was the only player to win the tournament on both grass and hard courts ...
Before the Melbourne Park stadium era, tournament dates fluctuated as well, in particular in the early years because of the climate of each site or exceptional events. For example, the 1919 tournament was held in January 1920 (the 1920 tournament was played in March) and the 1923 tournament in Brisbane took place in August when the weather was not too hot and wet. After a first 1977 tournament was held in December 1976 – January 1977, the organisers chose to move the next tournament forward a few days, then a second 1977 tournament was played (ended on 31 December), but this failed to attract the best players. From 1982 to 1985, the tournament was played in mid-December. Then it was decided to move the next tournament to mid-January (January 1987), which meant there was no tournament in 1986. Since 1987, the Australian Open date has not changed.

About the prestige of the tourney, Tennis Magazine (France) made a survey a few years ago (circa 2011, I don't exactly remember) among the players, be it men or women. The men indeed considered the Australian as the 4th event but
very surprisingly the women put the Australian Open at the first place, ahead of the other Slam events including Wimby..

Carlo, It's good that you are posting again.

[kiki]

...back when reala men played no tie breaks, at least not in the fifth.Kodes was an exceptional fighter who could thrieve on pain.Newcombe was Mr 5 sets, his stamina was peerless.

[Carlo Giovanni Colussi]

Originally Posted by BobbyOne

Carlo, It's good that you are posting again.

Thank you. Have a nice day.