Question about Early Start Rating

[Tennis Phanatic]

Do players with Early Start Ratings (ESR) ever get DQ'd? I am not that familiar with these ratings since my state (South Carolina) doesn't use them, but there are states in the Southern section that do use them. Over the past few years when looking at teams who advanced to sectionals, I have never noticed a player with an ESR rating getting DQd (I realize this is a very limited pool).

The reason I ask this question is every ESR rated player I have seen on Tennislink ends up having a C or B rating at the end of the year. For example, lets say a player starts an Early Start League with a 3.5 ESR rating. At the end of the year he gets a 4.0 C rating. He continues to play as a 3.5 with his 3.5 team, which I understand. Does the fact that he is now a C rated player mean he cannot get DQd, even though he is playing in a 3.5 league based on his ESR rating?

[J_R_B]

Originally Posted by Tennis Phanatic

Do players with Early Start Ratings (ESR) ever get DQ'd? I am not that familiar with these ratings since my state (South Carolina) doesn't use them, but there are states in the Southern section that do use them. Over the past few years when looking at teams who advanced to sectionals, I have never noticed a player with an ESR rating getting DQd (I realize this is a very limited pool).

The reason I ask this question is every ESR rated player I have seen on Tennislink ends up having a C or B rating at the end of the year. For example, lets say a player starts an Early Start League with a 3.5 ESR rating. At the end of the year he gets a 4.0 C rating. He continues to play as a 3.5 with his 3.5 team, which I understand. Does the fact that he is now a C rated player mean he cannot get DQd, even though he is playing in a 3.5 league based on his ESR rating?

An early start rating is a type of computer rating, so, yes, if you have an early start rating, you can play at that level for that team without getting DQd.

[rainman007]

can i get a team number so i can see what my year end rating will be

[g4driver]

Any idea how accurate ESRs tend to be compared to Year End Ratings? 100%, 90% accuracy ???

Any other guesses on the success of appeals to stay at the current level? It's my understanding the appeal will work both down or up if the player is within .005 of the rating threshold. Is this correct?

I built a 3.5 team in Georgia, then tried adding my players to the roster. Two players had the "This player's rating is too high for the team" message.

I then built a 4.0 team and when I added their names, I saw the 4.0E ratings by their names.

v/r

[dizzlmcwizzl]

Originally Posted by g4driver

Any idea how accurate ESRs tend to be compared to Year End Ratings? 100%, 90% accuracy ???

Usually ESR is a good predictor of year end ratings. I would guess it is at least 80% but that is merely a guess based on the entire population here. Usually if there is a discrepancy the player does not get the bump at ESR but does at year end.

However as an example of how that is not always true ... Our team last year that did well at sectionals had 4 bumped at both ESR and Year end. 2 Players were not bumped at ESR but were at the Year end. I am only aware of one player in the entire league that got bumped ESR and then dropped back down at year end.

[dizzlmcwizzl]

Originally Posted by g4driver

Any other guesses on the success of appeals to stay at the current level? It's my understanding the appeal will work both down or up if the player is within .005 of the rating threshold. Is this correct?

I thought the threshold was 0.05 ... but only if you played less than 6 matches and were not benchmarked. If you played a lot or were benchmarked then no appeal will be granted for year end ratings.

Also, I was one of our players to get the ESR bump this year. I immediately appealed to play one more season down for mixed and was denied.

What is interesting is the reason that was given to me (and to several others I am aware of.

"Your rating is too high to a lower level. National feels that when players play a lot of matches, the rating system is accurate. You played at least 25 matches."

Does this mean that if I had not played a lot of matches i might have won?

[g4driver]

Thanks dizzlmcwizz. I mistakenly typed .005. Thanks for catching that and your experience with ESR.

I was talking to a friend and fellow Captain about ESRs, he asked me to log in and check his team. I see two guys from my team, and two guys from my friend's team with the 4.0E ratings.

From the other team:

Team A:
Player 1 - Singles Only "B" rated from previous year as a 3.0.
Player 2 - Doubles Only "C" -- went to state on a senior team finishing 2nd place this year.

Team B: my team:
Player 3 - Singles/Doubles "C" (me)
Player 4 - Doubles Only "C"-- teammate of player 2 on the senior team finishing 2nd in State.


Here's what we noticed about the guys with the 4.0E Ratings: we both agree that both Player 2 & 4 (senior guys) are among the best doubles players on their teams. Player 1 from my friend's team is the best single's player on his team, very consistent, only lost two matches this year to very strong singles players. Record was 7-2 in singles. One loss was to guy who went 5-0. The other loss was 7-6, 6-4 to a guy (player 5) who went 8-1. Player 5 lost to a "S" rated 3.5 in 3 sets. The self-rated player's record. I will let you guess. Bingo. Unbeaten in local, playoffs and state at 3.5. His only USTA losses of the year at 8.5 Combo, where he went 1-1 and at 7.5 where he went 7-1. Oh by the way, he is going to State there also.

BAN Self-rated players from the playoffs! The self-rated guy goes 12-0 at 3.5 this year. 26-2 Overall So what if he gets bumped next year to 4.0, he should have self-rated at 4.0. Maybe my friends team goes to the playoffs instead. My friend's team beat the team with six "S" rated players, but ended up in third place in our division. The top two teams in our division of 10 team both went to state. 30 teams, three divisions. The best two teams in the local playoffs went to state. Both those teams were in our division, so 3rd place in our division wasn't bad.

Player 1 beat Player 3 (me) in the first match of this 2011 season 6-2, 2-6, 6-4 in singles. Player 3 & 4 beat two "B" rated players in doubles later that season 7-5, 6-4. Those two "B" rated players also went to our State playoffs again this year after placing second out of six teams in the local playoffs. So for at least two years in a row, the "B" rated players from the other team have gone to the local 3.5 playoffs, and this year, they went to State at 3.5.

There are at least two more players from each of these teams, that could get year-end bumps. I guess I have to wait until late Dec.

[kevten]

Just my own data point here.

I have been a 4.0C in Florida for several years and none of my teams have gone to districts/regional. I had several good seasons and last fall was on the ESR list as a 4.5 (as were two of my teammates). After that I played 6-7 matches in an 8.5 combo league, winning most of them but losing the last two. All were reasonably close matches. The winning team(s) in my 4.0 and 8.5 leagues did not win at districts.

When the 2010 year end ratings came out, I was still a 4.0; that means I must have been very close to the top of 4.0. My two teammates also remained at 4.0.

This year I had some nagging injuries so was not in as good condition and not practicing as much--my results were not as good and I was not on the 2011 ESR list.

[g4driver]

Thanks Kevten. So we might stay at 3.5. Works for me. I play on a 4.0 team in the fall and 7.5 Combo, 8.0 Mixed, so I am happy to have a 3.5 C rating by my name and play up. Our 7.5 Combo went to playoffs beating one of two teams going to state twice in three weeks. We had three of our five 4.0s out of town for the playoffs. Maybe next year we will be even stronger.

[asked_answered]

A question, G4driver: When you log in as captain, where do you see the "E" rating for a player who has received an ESR? This came up when I noticed someone playing for another 3.5 team with a 4.0 rating. When I logged in as captain, that player still showed as 3.5 without an "E" on the other team's roster, etc. Several emails later, I understood from the powers-that-be that he'd been bumped down to a 3.5E rating. But I've still never seen that "E" anywhere on the TennisLink system for that player or even for a couple of guys I know who have 4.0 ESRs. I'm sure I'm missing something obvious, but I've checked everywhere I can think of when logged in as captain. Thanks!

[g4driver]

asked_answered,

I went into Georgia USTA website, then to Tennislink.

From there, I built a Men's 3.5 Team out of Bitsy Grant. I grew up in Georgia, and knew Georgia uses ESRs.

Anyone can do this, not just a Captain. There is a link for "Don't have a team number", click on this.

When you put in the USTA Member #, the players name, email and phone number will populate. Just click "Add Player", if the player's rating it too high, you will see the message "This player's rating is too high for the team".

Then go back and create another team. I created a 4.0 team, then do the same steps. Input the USTA number, and after you click "Add" or "Continue" (sorry have to catch a flight soon), you will see the player's name and the "4.0E" rating.

Hope this helps. I will edit or update this post later tonight when I get to the hotel.

[asked_answered]

Thanks for the information, g4driver! I'll try it tonight.

[g4driver]

https://tennislink.usta.com/LEAGUES/...eTeamReg1.aspx

I highlighted part of the page you click on to start the process.

Let me know if this works for you.

Register for a Team
To Register for a team you will need a USTA Membership # and a team # provided by a Team Captain or Local League Coordinator. If you need to create a new team # online, click here.

* Required field

[asked_answered]

Much appreciated, g4driver!

[J_R_B]

Originally Posted by g4driver

Any idea how accurate ESRs tend to be compared to Year End Ratings? 100%, 90% accuracy ???

Any other guesses on the success of appeals to stay at the current level? It's my understanding the appeal will work both down or up if the player is within .005 of the rating threshold. Is this correct?

I built a 3.5 team in Georgia, then tried adding my players to the roster. Two players had the "This player's rating is too high for the team" message.

I then built a 4.0 team and when I added their names, I saw the 4.0E ratings by their names.

v/r

It's usually pretty good. There are two adjustments. First, the matches from nationals are added. Since these are the only matches (or most of them anyway) where players from different sections, these are the matches that move a whole section up or down relative to the others. Therefore, if a section underperforms its dynamic ratings at nationals, then you could see people in that section who were bumped in ESR moved back down, or if a sections overperforms their dynamic ratings, there could be people bumped who were not in ESR.

The other adjustment that is not in the ESR is the across-the-board subjective addition to everyone's dynamic rating that the national org did 2 years ago to move people up. Obviously, the effect of this was that a ton of people who were not bumped in ESR were in the YE ratings.