Rafter is in the HOF but Kafelnikov isn't???

[yashpant]

I can't believe that's true(ok, Kafelnikov is my Fav. all time, but still).
The stats say Kafelnikov is better, plus he has achieved more(olympic gold, 2 GS doubles, more titles, more wins(at a better %)). So why is Rafter in the HOF but not Kafelnikov?Something I missed?

[yashpant]

I meant 4 GS doubles..and if this thread turns into something like
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/archi.../t-164308.html , well then I'll be damned

[hoosierbr]

HOF selections are often popularity contests and Kafelnikov was never a popular player when he was on tour. He's quite a jolly fellow now and very pleasant but his attitude back in the day may be hurting him now.

[slice bh compliment]

Yes.^
Q rating trounce there, right? Rafter is just one of the nicest guys around. The sum of the whole are much greater than his actual numbers. In the words of Samuel L. Jackson, 'personality goes a long way'.

Kalashnikov? Great player. Good numbers. Good at dubs. Davis Cup, too. Hall of Famer one day, but less of a slam dunk than a Rafter or a Guga.

Guga will have one sweet speech. I hope we get to see that one day soon.

[yashpant]

Well, looking at it this way sure makes sense..and quoting S.L.Jackson can never be wrong
But the disparity in numbers seems between Rafter and Kafelnikov seems too much to ignore, IMO.
Any other notable omission from the Hall?

[NonP]

Good point about the doubles. When you factor those in there's simply no argument for inducting Rafter but not Kafelnikov.

BTW, Kaf failed to maximize his talent. His reputation as a money-grubber wasn't entirely undeserved (anyone remember the private jet nonsense?). It speaks volumes that Stefanki himself, who was still on board as his coach when he became No. 1, was speaking disapprovingly in public about how he was playing too much and not focusing enough on his singles career. And as is often the case with the fast-and-furious Kaf blew most of the money away not long after his retirement.

[slice bh compliment]

Yes, dubs slam winner.
There's another factor. I'm an American. I speak English. I will fully admit there's a very obvious bias at the ITF in favor of English-speaking tennis culture. You hear the French officials talk about the Anglo bent and the Latin side of things in Int'l tennis, Davis Cup, the aTp, the slams, etc. There's some truth to it in Newport, I think.

Wacko theroy alert:
Kalashnikov, I think ran afoul of the aTp or ITF or something. Something's up. Not really a conspiracy, but some sort of cover-up.

In my head, I'm writing a hackish short story about a betting scandal...Russo-Mafioso types, honey traps and a Fischer supercombi 9pack full of rubles or Euros or something.

But, I'm generally wrong about this stuff...and his IHOF day will come.

Honestly, I'm just resisting the urge to turn this into a thread about Guga becoming a Hall of Famer.

Superstar from South America. Undeniable.

[yashpant]

Guga will get in, for sure, don't sweat it 3 GS, no.1 , great personality..
@NonP: True, true..and Safin picked up a lot from Kafelnikov(except the Iron man thing) and then some..
Aside, will Safin ever be in the HOF?

[sarmpas]

Originally Posted by slice bh compliment

Wacko theroy alert:
Kalashnikov, I think ran afoul of the aTp or ITF or something. Something's up. Not really a conspiracy, but some sort of cover-up.

Wacko or not, I think Yevgeny had to return his prize money/appearance money once for a 'lack of effort' or am I thinking of someone else.


RE: what S.L. Jackson said, it's a fact of life.

[NonP]

Originally Posted by yashpant

@NonP: True, true..and Safin picked up a lot from Kafelnikov(except the Iron man thing) and then some..
Aside, will Safin ever be in the HOF?

I don't see why not. Marat did win "only" 15 titles, sure, but en route to his biggest wins he beat two of the greatest ever to play the game. If Rafter got in with fewer career titles (11 vs. 15), I think it's only a matter of time before Safin gets his due.

Somewhat on topic, I shared these videos on another thread. Think you'll enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yylgZJwnZu0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb6i5pQIn5g

[travlerajm]

My unofficial but completely reasonable HOF point system, with each slam weighted for prestige:

Wimbledon: W = 5, F = 3, SF = 2.
US Open and FO: W = 4, F = 2, SF = 1.
AO: W = 3, F = 1.
(only singles counts).

Using this formula: Rafter def. Kafelnikov, 17-11. So no conspiracy here. Kuerten's tally is 12, so better than Kafelnikov, but still well behind Rafter.

[NadalAgassi]

Kafelnikov won both of his slams with weak draws and he never even won a Masters title. Many consider him the weakest player to ever win 2 slams, and weaker than many 1 slam winners. He also was boring and made no other contributions to the game beside playing tennis.

I dont see him making the HOF to be honest.

[rolandg]

A lot of it is to do with personality. Rafter was popular and marketable and bought a lot to the game, entertainment and business wise.

Same with Sabatini and Novotna, who probably shouldn't be in there, but Sabatini brought the game a lot of attention and was popular, and Novotna's Wimbledon 1993 disaster is legendary, so they probably got extra votes for that.

[djokovicgonzalez2010]

Kafelnikov will be there, surely

[NadalAgassi]

Originally Posted by rolandg

A lot of it is to do with personality. Rafter was popular and marketable and bought a lot to the game, entertainment and business wise.

Same with Sabatini and Novotna, who probably shouldn't be in there, but Sabatini brought the game a lot of attention and was popular, and Novotna's Wimbledon 1993 disaster is legendary, so they probably got extra votes for that.

Exactly. To be quite blunt when Kafelnikov retired hardly anyone really missed him.

[yashpant]

@NonP: Thanks, saw those in your original post. Surprising how good Edberg's serve still is, even more surprising is that fat-kaf won..

@Travelerajm : Does the olympic gold(singles) count for anything??and perhaps the difference in titles between kaf and rafter could be worth something?

As great a performer rafter was on the big stage, kafelnikov won more and at a better rate(ok, marginally better rate :P ). And to think kafelnikov is the last guy to have won both the singles and doubles at a GS, that can't possible be overlooked..ahh the PR

[Whirly]

Wasn't he suspended at one point due to steroid use? Would that factor in at all?

[NadalAgassi]

Rafter defended a U.S Open title and a Wimbledon final result. This already puts him above Kafelnikov IMO. Plus he won Masters titles which Kafelnikov never managed (pretty pathetic for a 2 slam winner to have never won a single Masters).

Also didnt both guys do well in doubles. Both guys also reached #1 but never was either viewed as a real #1 in their time their. Actually many did feel Rafter deserved #1 for 1998, which is something nobody ever suggested for Kafelnikov.

Of course you could argue who is the greater player but their peers like Sampras, Agassi, the top Spaniards at the time, Ivanisevic, spoke more highly of Rafter as a threat than they ever did Kafelnikov. Sampras's book sums up how the top players of that era viewed Kafenlikov.

[dominikk1985]

Originally Posted by hoosierbr

HOF selections are often popularity contests and Kafelnikov was never a popular player when he was on tour. He's quite a jolly fellow now and very pleasant but his attitude back in the day may be hurting him now.

He also was suspected of gambling and throwing matches. Pete rose and joe jackson are not in the baseball HOF because of that.

Of course there is no proof that he did that but considering his sometimes very unmotivated performances and his well documented love for gambling
many voters might have suspected he did.

[slice bh compliment]

^Yes.

He was involved in some gambling. I think that's been hushed.
The lack of effort, I believe, was Marat Safin...not Kafelnikov.
The drug cheat story was Korda...not Kafelnikov.

Winning RG in singles and dubs puts him in rarified air, though. Now he's into golf and poker. Meh.