I know we've talked about this before, but.......

michael_1265 · 08-14-2011, 07:21 PM

Okay, the record below is from the year 2000 for a player who just played as a 4.0 self-rate in the Mid-Atlantic sectionals.

WIN - LOSS (Main Draw)

Career Doubles (Tour Level Only) 6 1
Career Singles (including ITF Pro Circuits) 1 3
Career Doubles (incl. ITF Pro Circuits) 7 3

Seriously, am I missing something here??????? She had a junior world ranking of 477 in doubles and 577 in singles.

Many 4.0s in this neck of the woods have no formal tennis experience, a bum knee, and are 45 or older. The must be an Upgraded, Special-Deluxe 4.0.

Or maybe she's an amputee and plays with two prosthetic legs. That would explain the discrepancy.

zapvor · 08-14-2011, 07:49 PM

not necessary. if this is her first time playing she is allowed to self rate. maybe she thinks shes 4.0

esgee48 · 08-14-2011, 09:19 PM

She wasn't a top 200 during that time (year 2000) so I doubt she was a 4.5 or higher. I assume when you said ITF, you meant when she was playing junior tournaments. If she was in the top 100, then you have reasons to complain, perhaps. It's now 11 years later and she can rate herself at 4.0 if that's where she thinks she belongs. If she played for a D1-D3 college team, then it's a different issue.

jdubbs · 08-14-2011, 09:28 PM

Junior world ranking isn't the same as a pro tour ranking. She starts at 4.0 aftr a long layoff. Seems ok to me.

Timbo's hopeless slice · 08-14-2011, 09:50 PM

i dunno, the kids who play the junior tour are often the ones who don't bother with College tennis cos they plan a pro career.

Not too many ex College players do anything much on the tour, do they?

How do you think she would go with Cindy, to give a reasonable example? No offence to Ms Sphinx, but any of the 14 - 15 yr old competitive juniors around here would double bagel her in about 20 minutes.

4.0?? Not a chance!

springfieldalum · 08-15-2011, 02:17 AM

Yes, she is not a 4.0. How did she do in the regular season? Many of the women lose games to keep matches closer so they don't get bumped up. If she did well, hopefully she will be bumped 4.0. Women's 4.0 doesn't get players like that.

michael_1265 · 08-15-2011, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by springfieldalum

Yes, she is not a 4.0. How did she do in the regular season? Many of the women lose games to keep matches closer so they don't get bumped up. If she did well, hopefully she will be bumped 4.0. Women's 4.0 doesn't get players like that.

They used her in doubles twice, and that was it during the regular season.

JoelDali · 08-15-2011, 02:53 AM

Call Darcy Cobb @ 1-800-NTRP-SCAM

michael_1265 · 08-15-2011, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdubbs

Junior world ranking isn't the same as a pro tour ranking. She starts at 4.0 aftr a long layoff. Seems ok to me.

To clarify, this is off of the Womens' Circuit ITF web page. The Junior page is separate.

I can't see as there would possibly be any ambiguity in this situation, unless I am reading the record incorrectly or out of context.

JLyon · 08-15-2011, 03:54 AM

this is a clear self-rate cheat, playing pro tour and then self-rate to 4.0, is she afraid of competition or something or let me guess she has not picked-up a racket in 10 years. She should be minimum 5.0 and maybe appeal for 4.5

Angle Queen · 08-15-2011, 04:19 AM

I think, Michael, that "ITF" "Tour Level" 6-1 record is from her Fed Cup play. Not exactly "pro" tour...but still...there's no way she's still just a 4.0 at age 28. I'd love to know how Section Officials responded to any grievances filed.

This is one of those cases where you'd love to see the self-rate questionnaire and what her answers were. Maybe that'd be a way to provide some more transparency to the debate over whether self-rates should be allowed to participate in playoffs. Make their answers public...and if an aggrieved team wants to do USTA's homework...then let them do the digging to contradict/dispute the "facts." As more and more data/history appears online, it should get harder and harder to hide from the truth.

maggmaster · 08-15-2011, 04:24 AM

This is a self correcting issue though right? She will rate up and be a 4.5?

Clay lover · 08-15-2011, 05:44 AM

She may well be just a temporary mercenary for this particular team and not a regular amateur league player, methinks.

michael_1265 · 08-15-2011, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maggmaster

This is a self correcting issue though right? She will rate up and be a 4.5?

And she will probably be underrated at 4.5, also. A neighbor of mine is on a team that just played this girl's team in the sectionals. My neighbor is currently a 4.0, but will definitely be a 4.5 next year. Her teammate, who plays even with her, ended up being matched against the girl. Both sets, the girl went up 4-0, let her have a couple of games, and then finished it. The impression I got was that it was just a walk in the park for her.

The USTA, by the way, denied the grievance, citing the "guidelines" wording.

This is something that needs to be fixed, if the USTA wants to maintain the integrity of its system. I assume that there is some integrity left. Maybe it is ridiculous to have nationals at any level other than Open.

michael_1265 · 08-15-2011, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clay lover

She may well be just a temporary mercenary for this particular team and not a regular amateur league player, methinks.

From what I understand, that team is full of mercenaries. For what it's worth, my friend's team is also a bunch of "all stars" selected from a medium-sized metro area. I guess it's hard to get into the playoffs otherwise. Sad.

Cindysphinx · 08-15-2011, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbo's hopeless slice

i dunno, the kids who play the junior tour are often the ones who don't bother with College tennis cos they plan a pro career.

Not too many ex College players do anything much on the tour, do they?

How do you think she would go with Cindy, to give a reasonable example? No offence to Ms Sphinx, but any of the 14 - 15 yr old competitive juniors around here would double bagel her in about 20 minutes.

4.0?? Not a chance!

Huh? What did I do to get dragged into this thread and then double-bageled?

michael_1265 · 08-15-2011, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Huh? What did I do to get dragged into this thread and then double-bageled?

Well, she's in your general area.................but yeah, the double bagel assumption was a little unfair.

michael_1265 · 08-15-2011, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Huh? What did I do to get dragged into this thread and then double-bageled?

Edited to remove double post

jdubbs · 08-15-2011, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael_1265

Well, she's in your general area.................but yeah, the double bagel assumption was a little unfair.

Breadsticks would be more accurate. Either way, she would crush not only Cindy, but also crush me, as a male 4.0. I played a top junior girl, there is just no way to hit a winner against them if you're a typical 4.0.

Still, let her play 4.0, if she does well enough she'll move up. So you get to play a really good opponent, learn something. Nothing wrong with that.

goober · 08-15-2011, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoelDali

Call Darcy Cobb @ 1-800-NTRP-SCAM

Called Darcy. She told me there is no scam, that everything is on the up and up, nothing to see here, move along. She offered me a free US Open backpack with a 5 year membership renewal. Oh she told me to have a nice day. Such a nice lady this Darcy...

08-14-2011, 07:21 PM	#1
michael_1265 Professional Join Date: May 2007 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 900	I know we've talked about this before, but....... Okay, the record below is from the year 2000 for a player who just played as a 4.0 self-rate in the Mid-Atlantic sectionals. WIN - LOSS (Main Draw) Career Doubles (Tour Level Only) 6 1 Career Singles (including ITF Pro Circuits) 1 3 Career Doubles (incl. ITF Pro Circuits) 7 3 Seriously, am I missing something here??????? She had a junior world ranking of 477 in doubles and 577 in singles. Many 4.0s in this neck of the woods have no formal tennis experience, a bum knee, and are 45 or older. The must be an Upgraded, Special-Deluxe 4.0. Or maybe she's an amputee and plays with two prosthetic legs. That would explain the discrepancy.

08-14-2011, 07:49 PM	#2
zapvor Legend Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: tennis courts Posts: 7,904	not necessary. if this is her first time playing she is allowed to self rate. maybe she thinks shes 4.0 __________________ Member of TW MAC. yes, we are better than you. and we bout to hop on a court to make another 'mil

08-14-2011, 09:50 PM	#5
Timbo's hopeless slice Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,102	i dunno, the kids who play the junior tour are often the ones who don't bother with College tennis cos they plan a pro career. Not too many ex College players do anything much on the tour, do they? How do you think she would go with Cindy, to give a reasonable example? No offence to Ms Sphinx, but any of the 14 - 15 yr old competitive juniors around here would double bagel her in about 20 minutes. 4.0?? Not a chance! __________________ 5.0 all courter. Betting the house on black 7 spades.. (Volkl X-7 310 WITH CYCLONE @ 55) "Tennis isn't easy" - Corners

08-15-2011, 02:53 AM	#8
JoelDali Legend Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 8,947	Call Darcy Cobb @ 1-800-NTRP-SCAM __________________ There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.

08-15-2011, 03:54 AM	#10
JLyon Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: AR Posts: 2,277	this is a clear self-rate cheat, playing pro tour and then self-rate to 4.0, is she afraid of competition or something or let me guess she has not picked-up a racket in 10 years. She should be minimum 5.0 and maybe appeal for 4.5 __________________ Dunlop Bio 300 48/53 lbs. A cruel joke by USTA putting my 4.0 butt at 5.0 for future butt kickings