Middles States sectionals - 3 stories

dizzlmcwizzl · 08-21-2011, 10:22 AM

1st story .... A story of honesty

In match 3 of 5 ... the top two teams had been identified and it was neither of us. We knew we were playing for 3rd place because it was going to be one of our 2 teams.

Anywho, my partner and I are playing 1st doubles against their best doubles team. We lose the first set to about 50 really good lobs over my partner's head. The second set goes to a tiebreaker which we win when the opponents fail to convert 3 match points serving 6-3. The server clearly choked and he knew it.

In the ten point match tiebreaker I was serving at 8-8 when my partner hit a clean winner down the line ... inside of the line. The cross court opponent who was badly out of position calls it wide. The guy we hit it past thinks about it, correct his teammate and calls the ball in. They are now serving at 8-9 instead of 9-8. We go on to win and this court essentially gave us third (for whatever that is worth).

Incredibly the matches this weekend were all called extremely well with little complaint or controversy, and I would like to nominate this guy for competitor of the year.

dizzlmcwizzl · 08-21-2011, 10:29 AM

In the final match of the day there were three calls that we made where we were clearly correct (confirmed by the official) and it incensed the other team.

1st ... On a first serve they change their out call to in and then they were upset when we claimed the point, instead of playing two.

2nd ... my partner hits a ball deep into the corner which the opponent lobs and starts yelling really loudly for his partner to back up by yelling (Back, Back). I catch the ball, asked if he called the ball out. When he said no I claimed a hinderance for yelling while it was in the air towards me. He checked with the official ... incensed some more.

3rd ... I am serving for the match and just mised a sliding serve out wide ... ball rolls two courts over where no one is playing and the returner walks over to pick up the ball before my second serve. When my partner asks for two serves for the unecessary delay he yells at us wondering if we always win with a rule book in our pockets. The next serve return he hits about 50 feet long, match over.

dizzlmcwizzl · 08-21-2011, 10:35 AM

Today two teams were 4-0 heading into the championship match. Both teams beat us 4-1 with us losing 3 match tiebreaks in each match. We were close but not really all that close.

Anyway, the one team has 6 self rated players all in the first year of college. There were all kinds of rumors about whether they played on their college teams or not ... I dont know for sure but the fact of the matter was they were 6 self rates and 6 of the best players at the championship.

On Sunday the team with 6 self rates played a team with only 1 self rate but in today's match he showed why he was the best self rate dominating the 2nd best doubles team I had seen at the event 2 and 1. The fact of the matter is I do not know how this kid has not struck out as he is clearly at the top of the next level.

Anyway, I do not yet know who won but I thought it was funny to hear the team with 6 self rated, out of level players complaining that the other team's 1 self rated player needed to be DQ'd. Gotta be justice at some level.

tennisjon · 08-21-2011, 12:09 PM

Today in my middle states match, my partner and I go up 4-1 in the first set playing below average for me, average for him. We then both stink it up, go down 6-4, 5-2, 40-0 they are serving up 2 breaks and had to put away overheads that I barely got into play. That pumped me and my partner up and boom goes the dynamite! We come back to win playing some inspired tennis to win the deciding match for the team 4-6, 7-5, (10-7).

As for the college players. Google their names and find out where they played. If its D1 or ranked in other levels, then you got an issue. In the 4.5s this weekend, there were a lot of guys who played D3, which is perfectly fine. I know in the 4.0 there was a guy who was on a D3 team, but he never started, so really, its not sandbagging. There are players who played D1 in 4.5, but like me are in their late 30s and have been grandfathered in.

OrangePower · 08-21-2011, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzlmcwizzl

Today two teams were 4-0 heading into the championship match. Both teams beat us 4-1 with us losing 3 match tiebreaks in each match. We were close but not really all that close.

Anyway, the one team has 6 self rated players all in the first year of college. There were all kinds of rumors about whether they played on their college teams or not ... I dont know for sure but the fact of the matter was they were 6 self rates and 6 of the best players at the championship.

On Sunday the team with 6 self rates played a team with only 1 self rate but in today's match he showed why he was the best self rate dominating the 2nd best doubles team I had seen at the event 2 and 1. The fact of the matter is I do not know how this kid has not struck out as he is clearly at the top of the next level.

Anyway, I do not yet know who won but I thought it was funny to hear the team with 6 self rated, out of level players complaining that the other team's 1 self rated player needed to be DQ'd. Gotta be justice at some level.

What level was this at? For example, if it's 5.0 then these could be perfectly legit self rates; if it's 3.0, then it's highly dubious.

dizzlmcwizzl · 08-21-2011, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangePower

What level was this at? For example, if it's 5.0 then these could be perfectly legit self rates; if it's 3.0, then it's highly dubious.

All my stories were from 4.0 ...

I would say the 1 guy was way out of level. On the team with 6 self rates at least 3 were rated to low but they were not as dramatic a case.

dizzlmcwizzl · 08-21-2011, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennisjon

As for the college players. Google their names and find out where they played. If its D1 or ranked in other levels, then you got an issue. In the 4.5s this weekend, there were a lot of guys who played D3, which is perfectly fine. I know in the 4.0 there was a guy who was on a D3 team, but he never started, so really, its not sandbagging. There are players who played D1 in 4.5, but like me are in their late 30s and have been grandfathered in.

It is not that important to me ... out of the 70-80 players there for the weekend 1 self rate was clearly out of level, 3 more were (to me) also well out of level and the other 3 were questionable. I felt like I could beat every other player out there ... I know I wouldn't but I at least I felt like I could.

In any event, we did not have the horses to compete with the team with only 1 self rate. We were fortunate to be as close as we were to them.

dizzlmcwizzl · 08-21-2011, 01:10 PM

Like the title says the team with 6 self rates took the title over the team with one, superb, self rate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzlmcwizzl

Today two teams were 4-0 heading into the championship match. Both teams beat us 4-1 with us losing 3 match tiebreaks in each match. We were close but not really all that close.

Anyway, the one team has 6 self rated players all in the first year of college. There were all kinds of rumors about whether they played on their college teams or not ... I dont know for sure but the fact of the matter was they were 6 self rates and 6 of the best players at the championship.

On Sunday the team with 6 self rates played a team with only 1 self rate but in today's match he showed why he was the best self rate dominating the 2nd best doubles team I had seen at the event 2 and 1. The fact of the matter is I do not know how this kid has not struck out as he is clearly at the top of the next level.

Anyway, I do not yet know who won but I thought it was funny to hear the team with 6 self rated, out of level players complaining that the other team's 1 self rated player needed to be DQ'd. Gotta be justice at some level.

OrangePower · 08-21-2011, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzlmcwizzl

Like the title says the team with 6 self rates took the title over the team with one, superb, self rate.

Thereby settling once and for all the age old question - quantity IS better than quality!

At least when it comes to self-rates in USTA tennis

tennisjon · 08-21-2011, 07:30 PM

One of the things with self-rated players is that if they get 3 strikes against them any time during the season, they could get bumped. This is especially so during the playoffs. I actually coached one of the self-rated 4.0 guys. He appealed down from 4.5 because he never competed in college, even though he was on the squad for 1 semester. Having played at the 4.5 level, he could play 4.5, but wouldn't be successful. There is overlap at every level. I have beaten 5.0s and have lost to 4.0s. At sectionals you get the best of the level. I did see the guys who won and was surprised at how young some of them were. I would guess that some might have played club tennis for a good school and therefore get around the system, but once again, the 3 strike rule is in effect for self-rated and appeals.

J_R_B · 08-22-2011, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzlmcwizzl

Today two teams were 4-0 heading into the championship match. Both teams beat us 4-1 with us losing 3 match tiebreaks in each match. We were close but not really all that close.

Anyway, the one team has 6 self rated players all in the first year of college. There were all kinds of rumors about whether they played on their college teams or not ... I dont know for sure but the fact of the matter was they were 6 self rates and 6 of the best players at the championship.

On Sunday the team with 6 self rates played a team with only 1 self rate but in today's match he showed why he was the best self rate dominating the 2nd best doubles team I had seen at the event 2 and 1. The fact of the matter is I do not know how this kid has not struck out as he is clearly at the top of the next level.

Anyway, I do not yet know who won but I thought it was funny to hear the team with 6 self rated, out of level players complaining that the other team's 1 self rated player needed to be DQ'd. Gotta be justice at some level.

I'm not going to go through all 6 self rates, but a quick Google search of the 2 kids that played singles in the deciding match against the NJ team shows that #1 is a recent HS graduate who signed a NLI to play for Rider next year, which is D1. He should be a minimum 5.5. The #2 played varsity for King's College (D3) and graduated in 2009. He should be a minimum 4.5. Neither of these are particularly strong programs for their level, but regardless, if someone filed a grievance, there would be a lot of explaining to do.

dizzlmcwizzl · 08-22-2011, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennisjon

I would guess that some might have played club tennis for a good school and therefore get around the system, but once again, the 3 strike rule is in effect for self-rated and appeals.

1st ... It does not really matter that much to me. Even if you took out the 7 self rated players we would not have beaten the team that came in second. I take heart that we were the best team there that only had legitimate 4.0 players.

However, I found very funny that in the captains meeting the coach with all the self rates was openly concerned when he learned that MS would disqualify during the event, instead of at the end. Then he had his very young singles players clearly throw games against the weaker teams they were not worried about beating. Against us, his 2nd best singles played a guy we threw to the wolves ... it should not have been close except he was practically serving left handed and won only 6-4, 6-4. The same guy was a much better player on Sunday when he was playing the close match that mattered.

The fact of the matter is that apparently you cannot win an adult title without several self rated players. This fact alone should point out that they are playing out of level and the teams that win are the teams that massage the dynamic ratings of the self rated players ... not the team with the best confirmed on-level rated players.

08-21-2011, 10:35 AM	#3
dizzlmcwizzl Hall Of Fame Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: DE Posts: 1,764	3rd story ... Self rates win championships Today two teams were 4-0 heading into the championship match. Both teams beat us 4-1 with us losing 3 match tiebreaks in each match. We were close but not really all that close. Anyway, the one team has 6 self rated players all in the first year of college. There were all kinds of rumors about whether they played on their college teams or not ... I dont know for sure but the fact of the matter was they were 6 self rates and 6 of the best players at the championship. On Sunday the team with 6 self rates played a team with only 1 self rate but in today's match he showed why he was the best self rate dominating the 2nd best doubles team I had seen at the event 2 and 1. The fact of the matter is I do not know how this kid has not struck out as he is clearly at the top of the next level. Anyway, I do not yet know who won but I thought it was funny to hear the team with 6 self rated, out of level players complaining that the other team's 1 self rated player needed to be DQ'd. Gotta be justice at some level. __________________ "You should be playing linebacker, not singles." Last edited by dizzlmcwizzl : 08-21-2011 at 01:09 PM.

08-21-2011, 12:09 PM	#4
tennisjon Semi-Pro Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: West Orange, NJ Posts: 613	Today in my middle states match, my partner and I go up 4-1 in the first set playing below average for me, average for him. We then both stink it up, go down 6-4, 5-2, 40-0 they are serving up 2 breaks and had to put away overheads that I barely got into play. That pumped me and my partner up and boom goes the dynamite! We come back to win playing some inspired tennis to win the deciding match for the team 4-6, 7-5, (10-7). As for the college players. Google their names and find out where they played. If its D1 or ranked in other levels, then you got an issue. In the 4.5s this weekend, there were a lot of guys who played D3, which is perfectly fine. I know in the 4.0 there was a guy who was on a D3 team, but he never started, so really, its not sandbagging. There are players who played D1 in 4.5, but like me are in their late 30s and have been grandfathered in. __________________ M&W Coach, Drew University. Pro Kennex Ki-5x(R) & Babolat Aeropro Drive GT+(L) Dunlop Black Widow 17 (62lb) Babolat N.Vy 16 (64lb) USTA 4.5.

08-21-2011, 07:30 PM	#10
tennisjon Semi-Pro Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: West Orange, NJ Posts: 613	One of the things with self-rated players is that if they get 3 strikes against them any time during the season, they could get bumped. This is especially so during the playoffs. I actually coached one of the self-rated 4.0 guys. He appealed down from 4.5 because he never competed in college, even though he was on the squad for 1 semester. Having played at the 4.5 level, he could play 4.5, but wouldn't be successful. There is overlap at every level. I have beaten 5.0s and have lost to 4.0s. At sectionals you get the best of the level. I did see the guys who won and was surprised at how young some of them were. I would guess that some might have played club tennis for a good school and therefore get around the system, but once again, the 3 strike rule is in effect for self-rated and appeals. __________________ M&W Coach, Drew University. Pro Kennex Ki-5x(R) & Babolat Aeropro Drive GT+(L) Dunlop Black Widow 17 (62lb) Babolat N.Vy 16 (64lb) USTA 4.5.

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