Interesting Accusation

spaceman_spiff · 08-25-2011, 01:23 AM

So in my match last night, I was accused of cheating because I did NOT call the ball out when my opponent's serve hit the line.

The serve hit the back half of the service line, I just barely got the return back, and my partner and I won the point two shots later. Despite the fact that the ball took a horrendous bounce (hence, my weak return) and made a hollow sound (two signs on our crappy carpet courts that the ball hit the line), and despite that fact that there was a big black mark on the line, the opponent at the net starts accusing me of making a bad call, as if hitting a weak return off a horrendous bounce is somehow in my favor.

He started pointing to a faded mark over on the sideline that itself was only a fraction beyond the service line, even though it was several inches over from where the ball actually landed. After implied accusations and threats of retribution, I told them both that they know perfectly well that, if I had called it out before they contrived to lose the point, they would have been fuming, so they can't have it both ways.

Has anyone else "cheated" someone by calling the ball in?

Limibeans · 08-25-2011, 01:34 AM

In this type of situation its only cheating if they lose the point. Seriously.

I'm pretty generous with my line calls, something which is pretty rare. Whenever im receiving a serve I will almost always call the ball good if I even think it catches 1mm of the line. Because I try to call it instantly and the balls are moving so fast, sometimes the ball is a few inches long... and I call it good.

Look at it this way...

If you called it good and it ended up being an ace they wouldnt overrule the call.

As a part of this balance... sometimes you will call a ball good in good faith and you may be wrong. Sometimes you win those points and sometimes you lose them.

North · 08-25-2011, 02:35 AM

Yep. I give a very generous benefit of the doubt on all line calls, including serves. People get upset if they were unprepared for the return (because they stopped playing, thinking the serve was long) or if I hit a really good return (like a winner).

I just calmly explain that the serve was good and that even if I wasn't sure I would call it good the same way I would with any other line call.

People still sometimes stay annoyed. I guess no good deed goes unpunished - lol.

spaceman_spiff · 08-25-2011, 02:55 AM

Well, my partner and I also got accused of cheating when we called a serve out that was nowhere near the line. It also left a huge, clear mark that was a good six inches or so wide; I almost had to use two hands to show the width of the gap betwen the mark and the line, but the server was still kicking up a fuss. The situation was so ridiculous it was comical.

The other guys are known throughout the county for their gamesmanship. They start arguments about calls purely for the sake of getting the other team angry in an attempt to put them off. In these cases, they were just trying to wind us up so that we would play worse, but it back-fired. We were actually taking it easy on them until that point, but then we stepped up our play in response.

Limibeans · 08-25-2011, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spaceman_spiff

The other guys are known throughout the county for their gamesmanship. They start arguments about calls purely for the sake of getting the other team angry in an attempt to put them off.

I dont know why people try this crap in doubles. In doubles, you have two targets and one of them is usually close enough to actually be hit by a swinging volley, "errant" serve, or overhead.

I can see why this tactic works in singles, but people doing this in doubles have to be out of their mind.

Not everyone can have this good of a response to "gamesmanship".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1e_zm6JHXg

tennis tom · 08-25-2011, 04:54 AM

Your opponents were MORONS. You're not playing tennis anymore, it's something else. They need to play the call. I played a jack wagon, in a tournament once, who would play my out serves no matter how far out--they could be five feet long and he still played them. Fortunately, I haven't seen him since--he was pretty weird for a tournament player--but you learn to play the call, otherwise you lose your concentration.

North · 08-25-2011, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennis tom

Your opponents were MORONS. You're not playing tennis anymore, it's something else. They need to play the call. I played a jack wagon, in a tournament once, who would play my out serves no matter how far out--they could be five feet long and he still played them. Fortunately, I haven't seen him since--he was pretty weird for a tournament player--but you learn to play the call, otherwise you lose your concentration.

Yeah. Whenever I hit a serve I set up like the serve is going to be good, no matter what. If it is good, I am ready and if it is not good, no big deal. I had an opponent once accuse me of gamesmanship for doing that, insisting it was just an attempt to influence her to call all my serves good - lol!

J_R_B · 08-25-2011, 05:55 AM

I was playing an open tournament against a 14 year old kid a couple years ago when something similar happened. On close serves, especially against big servers (and this kid was one...), at some point, you have to make a commitment to play the ball. Sometimes, when I do this, I see the ball out, but I would not be able to make the call until very late (after my shot is hit and back over on the other side). In these cases, I just play it rather than make a late call.

Anyway, I was playing this kid and he hit a big first serve close to the service line. I played it but saw it actually hit a half inch or so out. After a long rally that he lost, he lost it and started screaming at me about cheating and not calling out serves out and stuff. I was like, LOL, whatever (this kid was a hothead on the court the whole match - but ironically, a really nice, grounded kid off the court). Later in the match, the same thing happened, but instead of playing it, I made the late call after I hit the return. Of course, that set him off again b_tching about late calls. I told him it was out and that he told me to call the out serves earlier in the match instead of playing them, which just made him more angry. LOL, you can't have it both ways.

Unfortunately, he was pretty good, too, so I didn't quite pull out the match despite his anger management issues.

MrCLEAN · 08-25-2011, 06:26 AM

Too bad it's not your opponents call. I'm 99% sure that I play out serves at least once a match, but it's that 1% doubt that makes it good. Even if it was out, if you saw it good, or couldn't tell, it's a good serve. What don't they understand about that?

AR15 · 08-25-2011, 06:35 AM

I have played with a guy (doubles) that does not like his partner to help call serves in or out. This guy like to choose the serve he returns regardless of if it's in or not. He has a decent serve return, and his method will often produce points because the other team is not ready to play a ball that looked out to them.

I think this is cheating.

Govnor · 08-25-2011, 06:35 AM

Serves are tricky. You're getting yourself in position, and have less time to see the ball. You cannot get it right every time, especially against someone putting some hot sauce on it.

I know with 100% certainty the many of my serves in recent games I've played have been out, but we continued to play on. Usually the server has a pretty good idea if it's out or not, but yes, it's not their call.

Govnor · 08-25-2011, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AR15

I have played with a guy (doubles) that does not like his partner to help call serves in or out. This guy like to choose the serve he returns regardless of if it's in or not. He has a decent serve return, and his method will often produce points because the other team is not ready to play a ball that looked out to them.

I think this is cheating.

I agree......

sureshs · 08-25-2011, 06:47 AM

People will say: I assumed it was out. You got to be like, no, unless I call it out, it is not out, it is in. Then they will say you did not call it out when it was 3 feet wide and bounced in the other court. Then you are like, dude, that was so obvious. Then they go, you are not consistent.

blakesq · 08-25-2011, 07:03 AM

thats why you should call ALL balls out. why is that so hard? Or use your finger to indicate out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs

People will say: I assumed it was out. You got to be like, no, unless I call it out, it is not out, it is in. Then they will say you did not call it out when it was 3 feet wide and bounced in the other court. Then you are like, dude, that was so obvious. Then they go, you are not consistent.

Larrysümmers · 08-25-2011, 07:56 AM

happened to me once or twice. most of the time they expect the ball to be out, stop, and then see the return.

Nellie · 08-25-2011, 10:33 AM

The rules are clear - the serve is in until call out. As a returner, you are perfectly in your right to play a long/wide serve. Secondly, if the server (on second serve) sees the ball out, the server (or their partner) "shall" call the ball out and conceded the point. Your opponents failed - if they were unhappy, they should have stopped play and conceded the point because once they started playing, the point results stands as played in good faith.

AR15 · 08-25-2011, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nellie

The rules are clear - As a returner, you are perfectly in your right to play a long/wise serve.

I don't think that what the code means:

"27. Obvious faults. A player shall not put into play or hit over the net an obvious fault. To do so constitutes rudeness and may even be a form of gamesmanship. On the other hand, if a player does not call a serve a fault and gives the opponent the benefit of a close call, the server is not entitled to replay the point."

Limibeans · 08-25-2011, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nellie

The rules are clear - the serve is in until call out. As a returner, you are perfectly in your right to play a long/wise serve. Secondly, if the server (on second serve) sees the ball out, the server (or their partner) "shall" call the ball out and conceded the point. Your opponents failed - if they were unhappy, they should have stopped play and conceded the point because once they started playing, the point results stands as played in good faith.

As someone else mentioned its "rude" to play a ball that was "obviously" out. I think it depends on how fast the serves are coming. If you're playing a guy with a huge serve, you might play a ball that is a foot long "just in case" whereas playing a ball 1 ft. long off a 60 mph serve isnt acceptable.

You technically "arnt" allowed to play any ball you want.

AR15 · 08-25-2011, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limibeans

As someone else mentioned its "rude" to play a ball that was "obviously" out. I think it depends on how fast the serves are coming. If you're playing a guy with a huge serve, you might play a ball that is a foot long "just in case" whereas playing a ball 1 ft. long off a 60 mph serve isnt acceptable.

You technically "arnt" allowed to play any ball you want.

If it's coming so fast you can't see it, then it's not obviously out.

mucat · 08-25-2011, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limibeans

Not everyone can have this good of a response to "gamesmanship".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1e_zm6JHXg

Damn that Radek is so hot right now!

08-25-2011, 01:23 AM	#1
spaceman_spiff Professional Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The crappest town in Britain Posts: 1,153	Interesting Accusation So in my match last night, I was accused of cheating because I did NOT call the ball out when my opponent's serve hit the line. The serve hit the back half of the service line, I just barely got the return back, and my partner and I won the point two shots later. Despite the fact that the ball took a horrendous bounce (hence, my weak return) and made a hollow sound (two signs on our crappy carpet courts that the ball hit the line), and despite that fact that there was a big black mark on the line, the opponent at the net starts accusing me of making a bad call, as if hitting a weak return off a horrendous bounce is somehow in my favor. He started pointing to a faded mark over on the sideline that itself was only a fraction beyond the service line, even though it was several inches over from where the ball actually landed. After implied accusations and threats of retribution, I told them both that they know perfectly well that, if I had called it out before they contrived to lose the point, they would have been fuming, so they can't have it both ways. Has anyone else "cheated" someone by calling the ball in? __________________ The universe isn't expanding; it's just running away from Chuck Norris.

08-25-2011, 01:34 AM	#2
Limibeans Rookie Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 162	In this type of situation its only cheating if they lose the point. Seriously. I'm pretty generous with my line calls, something which is pretty rare. Whenever im receiving a serve I will almost always call the ball good if I even think it catches 1mm of the line. Because I try to call it instantly and the balls are moving so fast, sometimes the ball is a few inches long... and I call it good. Look at it this way... If you called it good and it ended up being an ace they wouldnt overrule the call. As a part of this balance... sometimes you will call a ball good in good faith and you may be wrong. Sometimes you win those points and sometimes you lose them. __________________ I rock the Tennis Warehouse 9 racket bag. It has enough room for lots of TP. Babolat Pure Storm Ltd. GT 95 Sq. - Babolat RPM Blast 18 Ga. @ 67 lbs.

08-25-2011, 02:55 AM	#4
spaceman_spiff Professional Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The crappest town in Britain Posts: 1,153	Well, my partner and I also got accused of cheating when we called a serve out that was nowhere near the line. It also left a huge, clear mark that was a good six inches or so wide; I almost had to use two hands to show the width of the gap betwen the mark and the line, but the server was still kicking up a fuss. The situation was so ridiculous it was comical. The other guys are known throughout the county for their gamesmanship. They start arguments about calls purely for the sake of getting the other team angry in an attempt to put them off. In these cases, they were just trying to wind us up so that we would play worse, but it back-fired. We were actually taking it easy on them until that point, but then we stepped up our play in response. __________________ The universe isn't expanding; it's just running away from Chuck Norris. Last edited by spaceman_spiff : 08-25-2011 at 02:57 AM.

08-25-2011, 06:26 AM	#9
MrCLEAN Rookie Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 341	Too bad it's not your opponents call. I'm 99% sure that I play out serves at least once a match, but it's that 1% doubt that makes it good. Even if it was out, if you saw it good, or couldn't tell, it's a good serve. What don't they understand about that? __________________ Head LM Radical OS 4.0

08-25-2011, 10:33 AM	#16
Nellie Hall Of Fame Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 3,646	The rules are clear - the serve is in until call out. As a returner, you are perfectly in your right to play a long/wide serve. Secondly, if the server (on second serve) sees the ball out, the server (or their partner) "shall" call the ball out and conceded the point. Your opponents failed - if they were unhappy, they should have stopped play and conceded the point because once they started playing, the point results stands as played in good faith. Last edited by Nellie : 08-26-2011 at 05:49 AM.