Taking the code too seriously?

[tennistim]

I play tennis in the UK in adult leagues and I always play by the code.

http://www.usta.com/Active/The-Rules...iated_Matches/

Recently I have been getting angry more and more often because other players (including doubles partners) don't play by the same rules - breaking the code all the time in every match.

How do other players get around this?

Should I tell my doubles partner he is breaking the code during a match? What is the best way to deal with this?

[spaceman_spiff]

It depends on how serious the violations are. For example, if people are foot-faulting by a few inches, I wouldn't be bothered. But, one thing that still bothers me even after five years in England is that people want to play a let when they can't tell if the ball was out. It's like they want to cheat but they don't have the guts to do it, so they want you to replay the point. I try not to be rude, but I push them to make a call one way or another.

If it's serious stuff, I'd say stand firm. Otherwise, let it slide.

[tennistim]

Originally Posted by spaceman_spiff

It depends on how serious the violations are. For example, if people are foot-faulting by a few inches, I wouldn't be bothered. But, one thing that still bothers me even after five years in England is that people want to play a let when they can't tell if the ball was out. It's like they want to cheat but they don't have the guts to do it, so they want you to replay the point. I try not to be rude, but I push them to make a call one way or another.

If it's serious stuff, I'd say stand firm. Otherwise, let it slide.

That's the most common way that all players cheat - and it is cheating because universally the world over every tennis authority states that benefit of the doubt must be given to the opponent.

Is this just a UK thing or does this go on in other countries?

The other things people do are:

Not calling their lines. (very common)
Not calling the score when they serve and then not knowing what the score is (very common)
Asking to play a let after they have lost the point because they were put off (happens every month or so)

I also turn a blind eye to foot faults as there is no real advantage gained by the server and most foot faulting players would be annoyed if you ever called them on it. But if it were a league match would you call it?

Other than foot faulting, I think any instance breaking of the code is as serious as any other. Just because one violation is more common than another shouldn't make it any less serious.

[mikeler]

Originally Posted by tennistim

That's the most common way that all players cheat - and it is cheating because universally the world over every tennis authority states that benefit of the doubt must be given to the opponent.

Is this just a UK thing or does this go on in other countries?

The other things people do are:

Not calling their lines. (very common)
Not calling the score when they serve and then not knowing what the score is (very common)
Asking to play a let after they have lost the point because they were put off (happens every month or so)

I also turn a blind eye to foot faults as there is no real advantage gained by the server and most foot faulting players would be annoyed if you ever called them on it. But if it were a league match would you call it?

Other than foot faulting, I think any instance breaking of the code is as serious as any other. Just because one violation is more common than another shouldn't make it any less serious.

There is an advantage gained by foot faulting. Most sports are a game of inches, every one matters.

[JLyon]

why not just follow ITF rules since USTA is specific to USA, ITF governs the pros and the rest unless LTA has their own set of codes

[jdubbs]

Originally Posted by tennistim

The other things people do are:

Not calling their lines. (very common)
Not calling the score when they serve and then not knowing what the score is (very common)
Asking to play a let after they have lost the point because they were put off (happens every month or so)

Those drive me crazy. I've had opponents look at me for the call. I just say "yep it was in" because if I show doubt they either call the ball out (80% of the time) or want to play a let.
If you don't know, it's your opponents point...every time.

The score thing drives me crazy too, with people not calling the score before every point, I've gotten into arguments over this. Less so now, as I call it before every serve, and even some of the opponents serves too.

The let thing doesn't happen too much though. I'm also very generous with the "take two" philosophy if there is any doubt at all.

[dizzlmcwizzl]

I will almost never "play two". It just bothers me. I will give an honest answer to the question at hand ... the ball was good, or I saw it out. I know the correct call gets made (at least as far as I saw it) and we move on.

Had a USTA match last year where a chap from the UK (maybe it is a cultural thing) tried this no less than 6 times in the match and every time I said "no that ball was well in and we will not play two".

[spaceman_spiff]

Originally Posted by dizzlmcwizzl

I will almost never "play two". It just bothers me. I will give an honest answer to the question at hand ... the ball was good, or I saw it out. I know the correct call gets made (at least as far as I saw it) and we move on.

Had a USTA match last year where a chap from the UK (maybe it is a cultural thing) tried this no less than 6 times in the match and every time I said "no that ball was well in and we will not play two".

Yes, it is quite common over here to call lets when people don't want to make a call. It surprized me quite a bit when I first moved over.

If I'm in a match, I push people (including my own partners) to make a call. If my partner tries to call a let and I didn't see it clearly, I'll say it was in. If my opponents try to call a let, I'll tell them it was either in or out and they have to choose.

It shocked people at first, but they're getting used to it now.

[tennistim]

Originally Posted by spaceman_spiff

Yes, it is quite common over here to call lets when people don't want to make a call. It surprized me quite a bit when I first moved over.

If I'm in a match, I push people (including my own partners) to make a call. If my partner tries to call a let and I didn't see it clearly, I'll say it was in. If my opponents try to call a let, I'll tell them it was either in or out and they have to choose.

It shocked people at first, but they're getting used to it now.

So if this is a problem more common in the UK, do you think it is because the LTA's version of the code is just 1 page long and doesn't spell it out?

I have just posted on the LTA's facebook page about this - http://www.facebook.com/britishtenni...61243117222158

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by jdubbs

Those drive me crazy. I've had opponents look at me for the call. I just say "yep it was in" because if I show doubt they either call the ball out (80% of the time) or want to play a let.
If you don't know, it's your opponents point...every time.

The score thing drives me crazy too, with people not calling the score before every point, I've gotten into arguments over this. Less so now, as I call it before every serve, and even some of the opponents serves too.

The let thing doesn't happen too much though. I'm also very generous with the "take two" philosophy if there is any doubt at all.

No, the Code specifically says that if you do not know whether the opponent's shot was in or out, you can ask the opponent. You must accept the opponent's answer.

I had this happen in a mixed match this weekend. My partner hit a shot to the male opponent at net, who blasted his volley right at my face. I ducked, so I didn't see the ball land. I turned to my partner and asked if the shot was out. He didn't know. I turned to the male opponent, and he said he didn't see it. No one saw it out, so it was in.

Although it was probably out . . .

[tennytive]

Originally Posted by mikeler

There is an advantage gained by foot faulting. Most sports are a game of inches, every one matters.

I agree. Step on the line in football or basketball and you're out of bounds.

If even the very tip of your toe touches the 3 point line, it's 2 points not 3.

Why we let people foot fault when the only effort they need is to stand back those "few inches" is beyond me. When their serve or any other shot is out by only a few inches, do we count those as good too? Big pet peeve of mine.

This isn't golf with ladies tees.

[tennistim]

Originally Posted by tennytive

I agree. Step on the line in football or basketball and you're out of bounds.

If even the very tip of your toe touches the 3 point line, it's 2 points not 3.

Why we let people foot fault when the only effort they need is to stand back those "few inches" is beyond me. When their serve or any other shot is out by only a few inches, do we count those as good too? Big pet peeve of mine.

This isn't golf with ladies tees.

Personally I turn a blind eye to this as I think some lower level club players can't help it and I believe that it wouldn't give them any advantage at the level anyway.

At the pro level foot faults would give a noticeable advantage (it could change the result of a match) and rightly so is strictly enforced by officials.

[tennistim]

should have read "at that level"

[jswinf]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

I turned to the male opponent, and he said he didn't see it. No one saw it out, so it was in.

Although it was probably out . . .

Did you notice if his pant were on fire? When us big strong men blast volleys we tend to notice if they land in or not. Unless he was upset that you managed to get your face out of the way...

[6-2/6-4/6-0]

I'm all for playing by the code, and certainly don't call anything out (definitely not a let) unless I see it as being out. Honor in tennis is imperative in my book. Winning by cheating at close line calls is worse than losing.

That said, how can someone who is preparing to receive serve see from 80ft. away that you toe nicked the baseline when you are serving. I don't ever call foot faults because I'm too busy getting ready to return serve. Unless it's a huge foot fault (stepping well into the court), there's no way to clearly see it, I think.

I used to foot fault quite badly some times when I was young and got a reputation as a foot-faulter, so people watched. When I sorted out my serve motion and mechanics to eliminate the foot fault people would still throw in the odd call because they thought they had a few coming from me (and, of course, they would usually do it when I popped a big first serve). After changing my serve motion if I did foot fault it was by less than a centimeter and I have a hard time believing that they actually saw it. A line judge would have, but someone 80ft. away preparing to return a big kick serve? Really? (Sorry, my own personal ax to grind...)

[tennistim]

I printed out a copy of the code to keep in my racket bag - just in case I ever need to show an opponent in a match.

Really, the thing that makes the problem worse is that at least 99.9% players I play break the code. One player sees other players breaking the code and does the same.

I played a guy in practice at my club last week, and after my winning shot he paused for about 20 seconds and then called it out. I said that he didn't sound very sure and he said he was about 70% sure it was out. I told him that he had to give the benefit of the doubt to me and he said, "Well I've never heard that rule before".

I blame the LTA.

[Big_Dangerous]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

No, the Code specifically says that if you do not know whether the opponent's shot was in or out, you can ask the opponent. You must accept the opponent's answer.

I had this happen in a mixed match this weekend. My partner hit a shot to the male opponent at net, who blasted his volley right at my face. I ducked, so I didn't see the ball land. I turned to my partner and asked if the shot was out. He didn't know. I turned to the male opponent, and he said he didn't see it. No one saw it out, so it was in.

Although it was probably out . . .

I hate it when my opponents ask me if a ball was good or ask to replay the point. I mean what do they expect my answer to be? No man the shot I hit was so out, are you kidding me? Who would do that? Even if I thought my shot might have gone wide or long, I'm not saying anything. It's their responsibility to calls balls on their court. Next time someone asks me or wants to play a let, I'm going to be the biggest ****** ever. Too many times before I've actually played points over because the dude wasn't sure, or the person has asked me and I give him an unsure answer and he's just like oh "I'll give it to you." Well, thanks for your charity ********, since you didn't have the balls to make the call yourself, and had to ask my opinion.... No more will that ever happen!! It's like You don't get to replay points just because you can't make a call or you didn't see it well.

Originally Posted by tennistim

I printed out a copy of the code to keep in my racket bag - just in case I ever need to show an opponent in a match.

Really, the thing that makes the problem worse is that at least 99.9% players I play break the code. One player sees other players breaking the code and does the same.

I played a guy in practice at my club last week, and after my winning shot he paused for about 20 seconds and then called it out. I said that he didn't sound very sure and he said he was about 70% sure it was out. I told him that he had to give the benefit of the doubt to me and he said, "Well I've never heard that rule before".

I blame the LTA.

Code stats that a call shall be made in a timely fashion. 20 seconds is a ridiculous amount of time for him to sit there and look. I would have gone McEnroe on his *** and been like "You cannot be serious!"

I mean come on, 70% sure? What a joke. It takes him a year to make an out call and he's not even 100% sure? Wow...

[tennistim]

Originally Posted by Big_Dangerous

I mean what do they expect my answer to be? No man the shot I hit was so out, are you kidding me? Who would do that?

So are you saying that some parts of the the code are dumb?

I disagree.

What's the point in winning if you know you cheated your opponent!?!?!

How would you like it if you were in doubt about a call, and your opponent lied to get the point.

I think this part of the code makes sense because often you have a better view of your own down the line shots than your opponent does - especially if they have been pulled out wide.

[tennis tom]

Lately, in rec/club play, I have not been as generous with my calls as is my normal want. I may have not forced my eyeball muscles to constrict and focus as well as they could have. One hair, on that cheap fuzzy Penn, may have come very close to that blurry line, and I may have said "OUT" wrongly without the utmost benefit of the doubt.

But, in my own defense, by that point in the "match", if you can call it a match, it was no longer tennis. It was four old farts trying to impress each other, a sad state. If there was a hundred things that could have been done wrongly on a tennis court--or on the way to and away from it--all hundred were perpetrated and ingeniously new ones created.

Code?, what Code?--that had gone out the window on ye ol' club's deck prior to "playing". Surprisingly, when you cheat a cheater or they think you are cheating them, their eyes open wider and they make better calls. Perhaps they have a new found respect for those on the other side of the net and now accept them as worthy opponents rather than mere patsies. They have now been accepted into their league of worthy shysters, an equal. Or, maybe the cheater fears his opponent may be better at cheating and retreat to playing tennis.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by Big_Dangerous

I hate it when my opponents ask me if a ball was good or ask to replay the point. I mean what do they expect my answer to be? No man the shot I hit was so out, are you kidding me? Who would do that? Even if I thought my shot might have gone wide or long, I'm not saying anything. It's their responsibility to calls balls on their court.

Simple question: Are you aware that you are wrong? If not, I can go dig up the relevant code provision for you, which undermines this idea that you shouldn't be calling your obviously out balls out even if no one asks you to do so.

For the record, I would never propose that we play a let. That's lame and contrary to the Code. But if you saw the ball out you should Man Up and say so and not steal points you didn't earn.

Next time someone asks me or wants to play a let, I'm going to be the biggest ****** ever. Too many times before I've actually played points over because the dude wasn't sure, or the person has asked me and I give him an unsure answer and he's just like oh "I'll give it to you." Well, thanks for your charity ********, since you didn't have the balls to make the call yourself, and had to ask my opinion.... No more will that ever happen!! It's like You don't get to replay points just because you can't make a call or you didn't see it well.

Maybe you, um, should read the Code and change your attitude?

If your ball is out and you see it clearly out and your opponent asks for your opinion, you need to admit the ball was out. To do otherwise would be cheating.

If you honestly do not know whether your ball was out, then it is your point. No let, ever. Just politely explain that you didn't get a good look at it either, so we'll need to call it good. If they try to ignore your opinion after asking for it, remind them of the Code.