Serve for talentless players - 'Serve for dummies'?

[Inken]

I have a big problem: the serve. The rest of my game is fine, but a am absolutely useless with the serve.
I tried everything: eastern grip, conti grip, a loop, a big loop, a bigger loop, no loop, bending knees, holding the racket only with three fingers for a whip factor, changing foot position, side spin, throwing the ball higher, etc.…

All other strokes I play two handed (groundstrokes and volleys on both sides), and it feels for me that I don't have enough strength for the serve.
I am not sure if my bad serve is a matter of a wrong technique or just because I am too weak to produce enough power (I am also very bad at throwing balls)

When I asked our pro, she lectured me in depth about grip, loop, feet, knees, shoulder, pronation, speed, spin - all in all about 30 things I should think of when I practice serves. But to think of more than one thing at the same time seems literally not possible for me. If I am doing 1 thing right, the other 29 are wrong.

Isn't there an easier, less complicated way for a good serve? Something like 'Serve for dummies'???

Is there a tricky and easy technique which helps talentless and weak players to learn a serve of average quality? Just to get the ball into the service box with average power. It could be any technique, and as easy as possible. Could even look ridiculous, that wouldn't matter. It need not to be the 'right' technique. It only has to be very easy and to help weak players like me to produce a certain amount of power.
Thanks for any advice.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by Inken

I have a big problem: the serve. The rest of my game is fine, but a am absolutely useless with the serve.
I tried everything: eastern grip, conti grip, a loop, a big loop, a bigger loop, no loop, bending knees, holding the racket only with three fingers for a whip factor, changing foot position, side spin, throwing the ball higher, etc.…

All other strokes I play two handed (groundstrokes and volleys on both sides), and it feels for me that I don't have enough strength for the serve.
I am not sure if my bad serve is a matter of a wrong technique or just because I am too weak to produce enough power (I am also very bad at throwing balls)

When I asked our pro, she lectured me in depth about grip, loop, feet, knees, shoulder, pronation, speed, spin - all in all about 30 things I should think of when I practice serves. But to think of more than one thing at the same time seems literally not possible for me. If I am doing 1 thing right, the other 29 are wrong.

Isn't there an easier, less complicated way for a good serve? Something like 'Serve for dummies'???

Is there a tricky and easy technique which helps talentless and weak players to learn a serve of average quality? Just to get the ball into the service box with average power. It could be any technique, and as easy as possible. Could even look ridiculous, that wouldn't matter. It need not to be the 'right' technique. It only has to be very easy and to help weak players like me to produce a certain amount of power.
Thanks for any advice.

Take a tennis ball, stand at the service line and throw it into the service box across the net. Do it again. Now, duplicate that feel with a racquet in your hand.

Serving is very similar to throwing something.

[papa]

Originally Posted by Bud

Take a tennis ball, stand at the service line and throw it into the service box across the net. Do it again. Now, duplicate that feel with a racquet in your hand.

Serving is very similar to throwing something.

Although what Bud said is right on there are a variety of other techniques that work also.

Using one of those light weight bats from Wal-Mart with the foam around the barrel works great but a piece of wood or even a stick about the length of a racquet works pretty good.

Long sock with ball in the end is a good exercise that works also.

One of the best things is using old/broken racquet and go out into your yard/field and just throw the racquet.

Biggest thing here is making sure you try and stay away from a "windmill" type throw/motion - try and not letting the thing (bat, sock, ball, stick, racquet, etc) your working with go more than a foot or so behind your back. The other thing I like is to have they throw the ball, stick, etc. over a high fence standing about 8 feet away - gets them in the hitting up position.

[larry10s]

throwing this tennis football will also help promote pronation in your throw when you get it to spiral correctly
you should throw in an upward direction from baseline to baseline(even tho you woint reach the opposite baseline probably
http://www.oncourtoffcourt.com/tenni...-set-of-2.html

[mightyrick]

OP, there's probably a lot of "weaker" people than you who can actually serve. I wouldn't worry yourself about the strength. I think a lot of people have problems connecting with how it feels to generate that kind of speed from a throwing motion.

If you've never really ever truly thrown a ball (hard), then this might take some time for you to learn.

One great drill to "get the feeling" of creating power is to stand at the service line with the racquet, toss the ball, and hit it hard enough to hit the opposite side fence. Don't worry about style points or where you hit the back fence. Just HIT IT. After you do that about 10 times, move back some. Repeat the drill. Then move back to the baseline and try to hit the far side fence.

If you are able to consistently hit the back fence, you definitely have enough power to serve. You just need to focus it.

If you are able to hit a groundstroke long -- past the opponents baseline -- then you have enough power to serve.

[Kevo]

Stand sideways at service line.
Hold racquet in hand with continental grip above your head so that the racquet points toward the back fence.
Your racquet and arm will form something like a 90 degree angle. Optimal is probably a little larger, but it's not that important at this point.
Rotate the whole arm so the racquet points toward the front fence.
The face of the racquet should pass right above your head.
Try that motion out for a bit until you are comfortable with it.
Then, once comfortable, toss the ball into the path of the racquet so you make contact over your head, but slightly in front of your body. Be sure not to adjust your motion. You need to toss into the swing, not swing to the toss.

After you do this for a while, you should be able to hit the ball in the box relatively easily with a fairly relaxed motion. We're not looking for speed here. Just clean contact and good direction. It really doesn't even matter that much if it goes in or out. Good contact and the right direction is what's important.

If you have questions let me know. Once you are comfortable with this much you can add in some additional features. Just remember at this point you are only trying to learn this arm rotation movement. You are not trying to do anything special. That comes later. As you're practicing this, try to build a consistent toss and a consistent rhythm. This is just a foundation to build on.

[sureshs]

What about this:

http://www.thetotalserve.com/

Watch the video

(Note: I have no personal interest in this site, but saw an ad for it)

[user92626]

Hi OP,

I'm curious, when you say you're weak, how big are you and what racket are you using?

IMO, it matters alot when you use a racket that you feel in complete control and you could hit/launch a ball past the back fence from standing in your own service box. It's not a proper tennis stroke, but it's just to show how hard you can hit the ball. If you could serve with that much power, I'm pretty sure your serve is unattackable by anyone up strong 4.0!

After you get your racket squared away, a very simple serve technique is point the racket head up first, then toss and simply hit, like Safina does. Obviously such mechanic is so simple that you'll soon realize that to hit more efficiently you'll need to turn the racket face somewhat (grip) and/or the direction of swinging through the ball.

Good luck!

[papa]

Originally Posted by sureshs

What about this:

http://www.thetotalserve.com/

Watch the video

(Note: I have no personal interest in this site, but saw an ad for it)

This is just a fancy version of placing a ball or two in a long sock - both work.

[eliza]

OP, Papa is very knowlegeable. I would also ask 5263, Playnice and that old eccentric person (quote not mine) who teaches tennis in 2 hours.......

[LeeD]

post vid.
A weak person can still serve OK. I can barely bench press 65 lbs., and can do no more than 3 pushups. I'm pretty sure on a warm day (over 55 degrees), I can serve with the best serving 4.0 guys.
Before you (PowerPlayer) chime in, I can also do 15 pullups and 15 extended pushups, so while some things don't work, other's are OK.
But the fact you use 2 hands to hit every ball might suggest you are less coordinated using one hand, so doubling up gives you the power and coordination you need to hit groundstrokes and volleys.

[Caesar]

All the best servers have an extremely simple action. For most people, the key to a good serve is developing an uncomplicated motion and a reliable ball toss. All improvement from there is just practice, practice practice.

Because it's so mechanical there are a bunch of different components to a good service action, and you really need to be guided by a coach in order to learn it right.

Try to find someone who distills it all for you. I had never heard of trophy poses or pronation or loops until I started posting on messageboards. I had a coach who just drilled into me a smooth, unflashy, uncomplicated, straight action with a continental grip, and a good, high ball toss. I practiced and practiced and practiced until it was silky-smooth grooved. I didn't even think about the word 'spin' for several years, until my flat serve was operating like clockwork.

As a result I have a very reliable, very heavy serve that seldom goes off the boil. And when I did start to add variation to my serve with topspin, slice and kick it came very easily - because I was making minor adjustments to a foundation that was second nature to me.

[kcmiser]

The serve tends not to be a very natural thing for players to learn. It's really mechanical, and there are a LOT of ways to screw up a serve. The biggest general problems I see are not getting "through" the ball, failing to swing up through the ball, and allowing your body to fall out of the shot (to the left for righties).

The comment that you have 30 things to think of at once, and you can't do that, is insightful. You are absolutely right. All the advice you get may all be correct, and any one piece of advice may help you with a particular problem you are having at any point in time, but it doesn't help you build a serve. You need to get the feel of it in a simpler way.

My best advice is to get some towels and kneel on them behind the service line. You should be pronating, but don't need to over-do it. Let your body figure it out. The pronation should be natural. Give it ten minutes, and if you're not getting anywhere, quit, and try again the next day.

Here's a link showing this drill. He's looping the ball more than I do. I focus on getting decent pop, but the concept is the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqUDzYl2IJg

Anytime my serve hits a slump, I go back to this. It forces me to hit up on the ball (since I'm lower and need to get lift on the ball, and also to prevent my followthrough from hitting the court), and removes any problems related to excessive body movement. I generally find that doing this for just five minutes gets me back on track, and adds maybe 10% to my serve velocity over what it was before.

[charliefedererer]

This is the serve for you from the Serve Doctor:

Serve Doctor's Simplified Spring-loaded Serve Technique http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixx-MCC7D88


Pat Dougherty is a real expert among experts. He has simplified the serve above by taking the jump out of it. It does not involve an overly deep knee bend where many lose their balance.

What this serve motion does include is using body rotation (winding the shoulders and hips) plus the powerful going into a bow/reversing the bow body action to power your serve.

This serve should give you a consistent serve.

Furthermore, if you start to really feel the rotational and unbowing actions, this serve can be the platform on which to add a deeper knee bend/leg launch to get more of a pro style serve.

[Power Player]

Originally Posted by papa

One of the best things is using old/broken racquet and go out into your yard/field and just throw the racquet.

This is what I did to stop from overusing my wrist. It simplifies everything.

Another thing I was taught to develop rhythm is to do what Becker did. Count 1-2-3. 1 starts at your toss and 3 should be said on contact.

[user92626]

Does anyone here think Andy Roddick's serve is simple enough, after you remove all his "extra" movements?

For simplicity's sake, is it simple to have roddick's trophy pose





And then hit the ball without throwing the body too much



?

[WildVolley]

^^Yes, Roddick's serve doesn't have a lot of unnecessary movements except some weird shuffling with his feet. That's why it is called an abbreviated motion - Roddick goes directly into his trophy pose and the launches into the serve. It happens so fast in real life that people aren't sure what they're seeing. Once you watch it in slow motion it is quite elegant.

The best servers tend to have precise movements. Poor servers tend not to time the kinetic chain properly and have exaggerated movements like a little kid trying to throw a ball hard having huge movement but hardly launching the ball at all.

I model my serve on Roddick's but ultimately it doesn't look the same.

[user92626]

thanks WV. one other question.

When roddick launches to strike the ball, would you know if he launches his body up or forward or some sort of degree? Also, is this corresponding with the direction he swings his racket?

[CoachingMastery]

Keep in mind, OP, that power on the serve is seldom a true "strength" related issue. With proper technique and learning to serve with a relaxed motion, you should be able to increase your racquet head speed to impart more speed and spin.

As a teaching pro, I've demonstrated serving with two fingers, serving from my knees, and serving with almost no backswing whatsoever. Yet, in most of these examples, I can generate significant serve speeds.

I've had 13 and 14 year old girls serve over 100 mph...girls who were far smaller and shorter than many men who couldn't serve over 90. (Men with poor technique!)

As others have suggested with good tips, check your motion, have a pro look at your serve, study the pros, and experiment a bit.

Most of all, understand the swing path you need to develop and use the right grip and body position relative to good serves.

Everything is interrelated. The grip will affect your stance which will affect your swing path which will affect your contact point which will affect the point of contact ON the ball with the racquet. Your leg drive, your body rotation, your collapse, and the dynamic pattern from the collapse to contact are all critical elements that must match.

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by user92626

thanks WV. one other question.

When roddick launches to strike the ball, would you know if he launches his body up or forward or some sort of degree? Also, is this corresponding with the direction he swings his racket?

Roddick launches both up and slightly out. Forum member Drakulie shot some nice video that gives you an idea of his motion and his impressive "archers bow." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZbxKuLEP_o

Roddick swings up to the ball and varies his swing path slightly depending on what sort of serve he's hitting. For a flat serve, he hits more forward through the ball. For a slice serve, he hits more across the back of he ball. His second serves are all hit with a racket path more out toward the side fence than his first serves.