Greatest Two-Handed Shot OAT

[BTURNER]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

I'd have Wilander in or near the top 15. His 2hb was rock solid and an all time great passing shot, even if it was as big a weapon as some.

yeah but he cheated and went to a one handed slice. I say a double hander means regardless of spin.

[Carlo Giovanni Colussi]

Originally Posted by hoodjem

... So here we go: we gotta have Segura's forehand in there (Kramer and others used to say it was the most devastating groundstroke in all of tennis--FH or BH) ...

This is my second post today :

I am off subject (two-handed strokes)
but I just want to say that
Kramer didn't always claim that Segura's forehand was the best he'd ever seen

In the mid-60's Kramer said that the best forehand he'd ever seen was that of

Kenneth Norman Fletcher

including two-handed forehands and especially Segura's.

(I read it in Hugh Lunn's biography of Kenneth, The Great Fletch : I have not the book to hand so I do not remember the exact very long title of the book published circa 2008 two years after Fletcher's death and even less the page where Kramer's quote is).

Kramer also thought that Santana's forehand was pretty great (again a one-handed stroke)
but when he watched the Fletcher-Santana match at Wimby amateur 1966 in the quarters,
Kramer was then fully convinced that Fletcher's forehand was also better than Santana's (Incidentally Santana won the match 7-5 in the fifth set, thanks to a miraculous lob, then swept the amateur title two rounds later).

So when Kramer stated later in his book "The Game" published in early 1979 that Segura had the best forehand he'd ever seen
he just forgot at the time what he had told a decade before about Fletcher's forehand.

The fact that Kramer stated at one point that Fletcher's forehand was better than Segura's seems to indicate that Kenneth's stroke should be pretty good.

Hopman (though not the most trustful person on earth) also claimed that Fletcher's forehand was the best in the world. In 1963 Hopman proposed Fletcher to improve Kenneth's backhand in order to become the best amateur but Fletcher got scared to become completely involved in tennis competition and from then on he more or less declined (his top peak was in late 1962-early 1963 with a small resurgence in june 1966 when he reached the quarters both at Garros amateur and at Wimby amateur (the Santana match I referred to just before).

Little story : circa 1968 (?) in Africa (Uganda ???) Kenneth Fletcher and Ian Fletcher (no blood relation) were involved in a car accident (caused by a truck) where another person (I think it was the driver) died. It so shook Kenneth that he then really declined tennistically and a year later he quit tennis competition : at the end of 1969 he played his last exhibition tournament and asked his colleagues especially Raymond Owen Ruffels in the final to let him win his final ever tennis match.

[pc1]

Originally Posted by Carlo Giovanni Colussi

This is my second post today :

I am off subject (two-handed strokes)
but I just want to say that
Kramer didn't always claim that Segura's forehand was the best he'd ever seen

In the mid-60's Kramer said that the best forehand he'd ever seen was that of

Kenneth Norman Fletcher

including two-handed forehands and especially Segura's.

(I read it in Hugh Lunn's biography of Kenneth, The Great Fletch : I have not the book to hand so I do not remember the exact very long title of the book published circa 2008 two years after Fletcher's death and even less the page where Kramer's quote is).

Kramer also thought that Santana's forehand was pretty great (again a one-handed stroke)
but when he watched the Fletcher-Santana match at Wimby amateur 1966 in the quarters,
Kramer was then fully convinced that Fletcher's forehand was also better than Santana's (Incidentally Santana won the match 7-5 in the fifth set, thanks to a miraculous lob, then swept the amateur title two rounds later).

So when Kramer stated later in his book "The Game" published in early 1979 that Segura had the best forehand he'd ever seen
he just forgot at the time what he had told a decade before about Fletcher's forehand.

The fact that Kramer stated at one point that Fletcher's forehand was better than Segura's seems to indicate that Kenneth's stroke should be pretty good.

Hopman (though not the most trustful person on earth) also claimed that Fletcher's forehand was the best in the world. In 1963 Hopman proposed Fletcher to improve Kenneth's backhand in order to become the best amateur but Fletcher got scared to become completely involved in tennis competition and from then on he more or less declined (his top peak was in late 1962-early 1963 with a small resurgence in june 1966 when he reached the quarters both at Garros amateur and at Wimby amateur (the Santana match I referred to just before).

Little story : circa 1968 (?) in Africa (Uganda ???) Kenneth Fletcher and Ian Fletcher (no blood relation) were involved in a car accident (caused by a truck) where another person (I think it was the driver) died. It so shook Kenneth that he then really declined tennistically and a year later he quit tennis competition : at the end of 1969 he played his last exhibition tournament and asked his colleagues especially Raymond Owen Ruffels in the final to let him win his final ever tennis match.

Fletcher was regarded by many to have the best forehand in the game when he played but whether Kramer EVER really believed that Fletcher forehand was the best he had seen over Segura's is somewhat debatable. I think Kramer, as many people do may have wanted to be politically correct.
I've read a lot of Kramer's comments over the years and while he is fascinating to read, sometimes you can read between the lines on what he really means. For example Kramer usually stated the best two players he had ever seen was Budge and Vines but you can tell the Kramer actually believed that he (Kramer) was superior to Budge or Vines and therefore Kramer was the best ever. So for example when Kramer says Budge would defeat Sampras most of the time (which he really thought I believe) he is actually saying that I also would defeat Sampras. Kramer did say Budge was better than Sampras in a Tennis Channel interview just a few years ago.
Yet in an interview a few years ago Kramer said Federer would defeat him (Kramer) 6-0 6-0. I doubt if Kramer actually thought that. I think Kramer was trying to be politically correct.

Incidentally Kramer didn't just say that Segura's two handed forehand was the best forehand but he also said it was the greatest shot he had EVER SEEN in tennis, including Budge's backhand which says a lot.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by pc1

Fletcher was regarded by many to have the best forehand in the game when he played but whether Kramer EVER really believed that Fletcher forehand was the best he had seen over Segura's is somewhat debatable. I think Kramer, as many people do may have wanted to be politically correct.

I've read a lot of Kramer's comments over the years and while he is fascinating to read, sometimes you can read between the lines on what he really means. For example Kramer usually stated the best two players he had ever seen was Budge and Vines but you can tell the Kramer actually believed that he (Kramer) was superior to Budge or Vines and therefore Kramer was the best ever. So for example when Kramer says Budge would defeat Sampras most of the time (which he really thought I believe) he is actually saying that I also would defeat Sampras. Kramer did say Budge was better than Sampras in a Tennis Channel interview just a few years ago.

Yet in an interview a few years ago Kramer said Federer would defeat him (Kramer) 6-0 6-0. I doubt if Kramer actually thought that. I think Kramer was trying to be politically correct.

It seems there is no dearth of former pros, even all time greats, who are quite able to make some pretty ridiculous comments from time to time . . . and for some, most of the time.

[NikeWilson]

Originally Posted by pc1

Maybe we should have separate lists for male and female players. Off the top of my head I think Evert should lead the list for the women players with her backhand.

I'd put Monica Seles #1.

[NikeWilson]

In terms of the men, I'd go:
1) Agassi
2) Connors

In today's game I really think Nadal has one of the best backhands ever, but lately it's been slipping.
Whereas Djokovic's backhand was decent in the past, but nowadays it's arguably the best ever. But can he keep it up? We'll see.

[LuvTheGame]

1. Agassi

2. Nadal

3. Connors

[NikeWilson]

Davydenko actually has a great 2-handed backhand too. The way he hits those high ones like it's nothing is amazing.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by LuvTheGame

1. Agassi

2. Nadal

3. Connors

OK, put down the crack pipe and step back!

[SusanDK]

My personal favorites:

#1 Jimmy Connors bh - perfect shot, loved the flat shots that barely cleared the net and always hit from perfect position. I could watch him hit that shot all day.

#2 Borg bh - hypnotic to watch him thread the needle on passing shots, loved the release follow through

#3 Agassi bh - explosive, exciting, loved to see him rip a winner

#4 Wilander bh - as steady as they come, never misses, despite perhaps not being as exciting to watch as others, almost without error on this side

#5 Jarryd bh - sentimental favorite but a really good 2hbh, particularly the return of serve (where's Kiki when I need him for support!)

Among current pros, I do appreciate the 2hbh's of both Djokovic and Nadal.

[SoCal10s]

2HF without a doubt ,Pancho Segura.. he could hurt you with so many variety of shots and he used to disguised his shot so well,the most dead of which being his drop shot ,then lob..

2hb.. I have to go with the present Djokovic .. his down-the line is what's keeping him in the winner's circle .. that down the line drop shot is not bad either ..

[BTURNER]

Originally Posted by NikeWilson

I'd put Monica Seles #1.

Monica's is definitely on anyone's short list. She could hit with more power and angle off that wing and also incorporated underspin and heavy top for variety. She did not prove it worked as a grass shot though adjusting to the skidding and unpredictable bounce and really low slices. Evert's two hander was deadly vs the s/v game in every respect. Her offensive and defensive bh lobs were the best in the sport to compliment those passing shots & return, she worked an underspin bh approach into her game and she had an effective two handed volley.

Monica's BH limitation is largely of victim of her time and circumstance. It wasn't adequately tested over as long a period, in as many varied scenarios. It lacks for positive evidence that a career spanning 18 years, from Court through Graf provides. Evert's career spanned time frames in which at least two of four majors were held on grass, then clay for 3 years and finally for 1988 on hard/rebound ace. Just lots of opportunities to prove consistency of each stroke on each surface vs a variety of styles and top players. On occasion her serve, confidence, and even forehand failed. That backhand almost never.

[pc1]

Originally Posted by Carlo Giovanni Colussi

This is my second post today :

I am off subject (two-handed strokes)
but I just want to say that
Kramer didn't always claim that Segura's forehand was the best he'd ever seen

In the mid-60's Kramer said that the best forehand he'd ever seen was that of

Kenneth Norman Fletcher

including two-handed forehands and especially Segura's.

(I read it in Hugh Lunn's biography of Kenneth, The Great Fletch : I have not the book to hand so I do not remember the exact very long title of the book published circa 2008 two years after Fletcher's death and even less the page where Kramer's quote is).

Kramer also thought that Santana's forehand was pretty great (again a one-handed stroke)
but when he watched the Fletcher-Santana match at Wimby amateur 1966 in the quarters,
Kramer was then fully convinced that Fletcher's forehand was also better than Santana's (Incidentally Santana won the match 7-5 in the fifth set, thanks to a miraculous lob, then swept the amateur title two rounds later).

So when Kramer stated later in his book "The Game" published in early 1979 that Segura had the best forehand he'd ever seen
he just forgot at the time what he had told a decade before about Fletcher's forehand.

The fact that Kramer stated at one point that Fletcher's forehand was better than Segura's seems to indicate that Kenneth's stroke should be pretty good.

Hopman (though not the most trustful person on earth) also claimed that Fletcher's forehand was the best in the world. In 1963 Hopman proposed Fletcher to improve Kenneth's backhand in order to become the best amateur but Fletcher got scared to become completely involved in tennis competition and from then on he more or less declined (his top peak was in late 1962-early 1963 with a small resurgence in june 1966 when he reached the quarters both at Garros amateur and at Wimby amateur (the Santana match I referred to just before).

Little story : circa 1968 (?) in Africa (Uganda ???) Kenneth Fletcher and Ian Fletcher (no blood relation) were involved in a car accident (caused by a truck) where another person (I think it was the driver) died. It so shook Kenneth that he then really declined tennistically and a year later he quit tennis competition : at the end of 1969 he played his last exhibition tournament and asked his colleagues especially Raymond Owen Ruffels in the final to let him win his final ever tennis match.

Carlo,

I was glancing through an old tennis instructional book with Jack Kramer as one of the contributors. The first printing of this book was the early 1970's and it's interesting to note that Kramer wrote that the two best shots he has seen was Segura's forehand and Budge's backhand. I have a hunch this is what he truly believed but he decided he had to praise Fletcher's forehand which was a great shot apparently.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by SusanDK

My personal favorites:

#1 Jimmy Connors bh - perfect shot, loved the flat shots that barely cleared the net and always hit from perfect position. I could watch him hit that shot all day.

#2 Borg bh - hypnotic to watch him thread the needle on passing shots, loved the release follow through

#3 Agassi bh - explosive, exciting, loved to see him rip a winner

#4 Wilander bh - as steady as they come, never misses, despite perhaps not being as exciting to watch as others, almost without error on this side

#5 Jarryd bh - sentimental favorite but a really good 2hbh, particularly the return of serve (where's Kiki when I need him for support!)

Among current pros, I do appreciate the 2hbh's of both Djokovic and Nadal.

Altough I think Mecir´s was more versatile than Anders´you have my plenty support, at leat in the return of serve department, were Jarryd was second only to Agassi and Connors only, and he was really amazing returning from the bh side when playing doubles.I always felt Edberg should have teamed up more years with Jarryd; they were , IMO, one of the 2 teams in the 80´s able to look at the face of Mac and Fleming ( the other being my favs double Mac´s: Mc namee and Mc Namara)

[kiki]

I like the mention of Ken Fletcher.it proves than, even in the depleted amateur ranks, the depth of aussie talent was unbelievable in the 60´s.FI, another one to mention would be Owen Davidson, whom Fletcher teamed up to make one of the greatest doubles teams of their time.

[pc1]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

It seems there is no dearth of former pros, even all time greats, who are quite able to make some pretty ridiculous comments from time to time . . . and for some, most of the time.

Incidentally Kramer didn't just say that Segura's two handed forehand was the best forehand but he also said it was the greatest shot he had EVER SEEN in tennis, including Budge's backhand which says a lot. It makes you want to see how great Segura's forehand was over a period of time. Ellsworth Vines also agreed that it was the greatest shot he had ever seen in tennis. Kramer had said if a ball wasn't 3 or 4 feet from the baseline the shot would be put away.

[Rock Strongo]

Graf. Obviously. Every single one of these is Graf.

[pc1]

A description of Segura's two handed forehand.

http://www.allenfoxtennis.net/pancho...d-personality/

[kiki]

Originally Posted by hoodjem

With all the GOAT BH and FH and Serve, it seemed appropriate to initiate a thread on the "greatest two-handed shots of all time."

So here we go: we gotta have Segura's forehand in there (Kramer and others used to say it was the most devastating groundstroke in all of tennis--FH or BH), and certainly Connor's backhand (did hew start it all?)

AThe there's plenty of room to build a list with other great 2HBHs. How many 2HfHs have there been? One wonders.

1. Segura FH
2. Connors BH
3. Agassi BH
4. Nalbandian BH
5. Safin BH
6. Borg BH
6. Djokovic BH
8. Rios BH
9. Mecir BH
10. Kafelnikov BH
11. Murray BH
12. Nadal BH
13. Drysdale BH
14. Mayer FH
15. McMillan FH/BH
16. Evert BH
17. Seles FH/BH
18. Hingis BH
19. Bromwich FH
20. Peng Shuai FH
21. Geoff Brown
22. Viv McGrath
23. Bartoli FH

There was a guy called Hans Gildemeister that played both, Fh and Bh two handed and was a top clay court player for some years.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by pc1

I would rank Segura's two handed forehand number one. Too many people who have seen it say it's the best single tennis shot they have ever seen.

Ellsworth Vines also said it was the greatest single shot in the history of tennis.

It has been compared to Jimmy Connors' lefty backhand but with more control and disguise. Of course that makes sense since Pancho Segura was one of Jimmy Connors' teachers and coaches.

Other possibilities, Jimmy Connors' lefty backhand as Hoodjem mention, Borg's two handed backhand, Djokovic's two handed backhand, Agassi's backhand, Mecir's backhand, Wilander's backhand, Chang's backhand.

Among the women, Evert's backhand, Seles' strokes on either side, Hingis' backhand, Serena's backhand, Clijsters' backhand.

Kafelnikov and Medvedev had more power than a few ones described.Bruguera´s and Courier´s were not bad either¡¡¡