3.5 to 4.0 Action Plan?

[asked_answered]

Originally Posted by Fuji

Hahaha better? Probably not! More powerful? Possibly! I had it clock in in the triple digits last week.

I can't really pinpoint what makes it so different to be honest. I know my stance is reaaaaally wide, and that I'm quite a bit back from the baseline, but other then that it seems almost normal! Haha!

-Fuji

I think the part that looks unusual is the takeback and early serving motion. It reminds me of a baseball pitcher. That's not a bad thing, of course, considering how a hard pitcher can throw a ball with that motion. I'm not surprised you're hitting triple digits.

[Fuji]

Originally Posted by asked_answered

I think the part that looks unusual is the takeback and early serving motion. It reminds me of a baseball pitcher. That's not a bad thing, of course, considering how a hard pitcher can throw a ball with that motion. I'm not surprised you're hitting triple digits.

Haha that makes sense! It actually throws quite a few guys off that I play with, since they normally expect a bit more time to react. I lock and load pretty quickly.

How's your serve coming along bud???

-Fuji

[asked_answered]

Originally Posted by Fuji

Haha that makes sense! It actually throws quite a few guys off that I play with, since they normally expect a bit more time to react. I lock and load pretty quickly.

How's your serve coming along bud???

-Fuji

It's about the same: reasonably strong for my level on the first serve, pretty darn spinny on the second. I don't get a lot of time to practice now with my current job, so I haven't been able to do a lot to increase my consistency. If I can keep myself from getting frustrated and tense during a match, my serving is pretty effective. Thanks for asking!

[Winning Ugly]

Hey OP -- good luck in your quest! Perhaps a little history will convince you to never, ever give up....

I have been a mid to high 3.5 player for over 30 years. But, I never quit trying to improve -- although sometimes my "improvement efforts" have had 2-year haituses due to other priorities (or rehab from the 5 knee operations I have earned along the way!) Needless to say, at this point in my life I play 90% doubles (100% in league play)

2 years ago I got "early start" rated to 4.0 after a very good 3.5 season (senior and adult) and boy was I excited -- after all that time! But, poor play at senior sectionals must have convinced the computer to knock me down, and so it goes.

It is common knowledge that playing up does wonders for your level (not to mention your game) so I talked my way onto a couple 4.0 teams, playing 3.5 only at the senior level (one of my best friends is the captain and we thought we had a shot at Nationals). Long story short, last year was another very strong 3.5 season, and I did OK at Sectionals although our team fell a bit short. Plus, playing 4.0 (doubles only), while I had way more losses than wins, most of the losses were competitive (except against a couple court 1 teams) and I felt I belonged. So, the early start ratings came out -- and again, 4.0. At 60 years old!

Perhaps this time it will stick -- folks in the know tell me the sectional results and decent 4.0 matches make it very likely to.

If I can stress 2 things, it is smarts and fitness.

Smarts means playing true to your style and always maximizing your chance to win points AND induce your opponent to lose points. My style can be maddening -- it is basically at all times to hit the shot that I believe best gives me the chance to ULTIMATELY win the point. Given my skill set, that means always get the ball back -- depth and direction are far more useful than pace at our level. When finally presented with a weak shot, I rarely go for the winner -- I just try to hit a 90%-likely-to-go-in shot that my opponent will have no good answer for -- either they make the error or they hit one back to me or my partner for an easy putaway. If I am in trouble, that is when the lob or blast works well -- I can no longer set up the point, so the shot I can make maybe 40%-50% of the time, which I would never use if the point is neutral or I am in control of it, becomes the only logical choice -- otherwise my opponent wins the point 80% of the time!

Smarts also means developing shots that 4.0's cannot pick on. One of the best is a dependable deep second serve with some spin -- whether a medium slice or something with more topspin. I found playing against 4.0's, where I felt no pressure to win, let me really go for a more solid second serve -- which I then translated to using against the toughest 3.5's. (I still wimped in the second serve against weaker 3.5's -- why take any chance on a double fault when I knew there was a better than 50% chance I'd win the point regardless of my serve's pace?) Similar logic with my service returns. I developed a pacier return to break out when playing against 4.0's who could comfortably poach and destroy my usual "just get it in" returns. While I made more errors, and did not need this return against weaker 3.5's, it increased my likelihood of winning points at 4.0 -- and against the top 3.5 players who were between me and a 4.0 rating.

Fitness is even more important. I started a regular workout regimen, and the benefit is less on the stamina to play longer points, but more on the strength to maintain proper technique under pressure. This probably helped my game MUCH more than any lessons or clinics. After playing this many years -- I KNOW what I should be doing, and can usually self-diagnose (not needing the precision which 5.0 and above players require). Unfortunately, I have let myself go a bit since the outdoor season ended, and so I am avoiding clinics until I get back on the fitness train -- you simply cannot sustain good technique if you are flabby, so why bother?

So, I hope you do not have to wait until your 7th decade to become a 4.0! But, if it takes you a bit longer than you would like, do not give up -- eventually your efforts will be rewarded.

[asked_answered]

Thanks for sharing your experiences and thanks for the tips, Winning Ugly! It's definitely good to know that improvement can come over a long period of time. I am trying not be impatient with myself, at present.

[Fuji]

Originally Posted by asked_answered

It's about the same: reasonably strong for my level on the first serve, pretty darn spinny on the second. I don't get a lot of time to practice now with my current job, so I haven't been able to do a lot to increase my consistency. If I can keep myself from getting frustrated and tense during a match, my serving is pretty effective. Thanks for asking!

That's awesome! When I was hitting with an ATP Pro yesterday he gave me a good tip. "If you can, practice 30 minutes of just hitting a single serve once a week. I do it and it keeps my 2nd serves unattackable since I have the confidence in it." It makes sense that 30 minutes of hitting just one serve would help a lot in the long run!

My forehand abandoned me today haha. I lost 6-4 to a 5.0 woman who plays mixed doubles and destroys net players. She was able to return my serves that weren't aces so cleanly and hit within 1 foot of the baseline every time. Her passing shots are the best I've ever seen before. It was a super fun hit.

-Fuji

[asked_answered]

Originally Posted by Fuji

That's awesome! When I was hitting with an ATP Pro yesterday he gave me a good tip. "If you can, practice 30 minutes of just hitting a single serve once a week. I do it and it keeps my 2nd serves unattackable since I have the confidence in it." It makes sense that 30 minutes of hitting just one serve would help a lot in the long run!

My forehand abandoned me today haha. I lost 6-4 to a 5.0 woman who plays mixed doubles and destroys net players. She was able to return my serves that weren't aces so cleanly and hit within 1 foot of the baseline every time. Her passing shots are the best I've ever seen before. It was a super fun hit.

-Fuji

I completely agree that practicing a serve on a weekly basis is a huge help. That's how my second serve got the point it's at now. It (and my first serve, of course) needs many more weeks of practice time that I don't have at present.

That sounds like a really good hitting experience! I hit with a 4.5 guy a couple of weeks ago because he wanted a live target for a forty minute session, instead of hitting against the ball machine, and that was great fun and very educational for me. He ran me ragged, of course.

[Fuji]

Originally Posted by asked_answered

I completely agree that practicing a serve on a weekly basis is a huge help. That's how my second serve got the point it's at now. It (and my first serve, of course) needs many more weeks of practice time that I don't have at present.

That sounds like a really good hitting experience! I hit with a 4.5 guy a couple of weeks ago because he wanted a live target for a forty minute session, instead of hitting against the ball machine, and that was great fun and very educational for me. He ran me ragged, of course.

Haha! You literally have all the time in the world to practice throughout your life. There's definitely no rush!

It was a good experience. I have no doubts I'll beat her next time we play. I just can't get drawn into the net to face the wrath of her passing shots LOL! It's awesome when you play against really good players that can put you through your paces. I love it. I'm pretty out of shape (as you can probably tell from the videos) so I love getting a good sweat on!

-Fuji

[asked_answered]

Originally Posted by Fuji

Haha! You literally have all the time in the world to practice throughout your life. There's definitely no rush!

It was a good experience. I have no doubts I'll beat her next time we play. I just can't get drawn into the net to face the wrath of her passing shots LOL! It's awesome when you play against really good players that can put you through your paces. I love it. I'm pretty out of shape (as you can probably tell from the videos) so I love getting a good sweat on!

-Fuji

I'm 42, so I don't have quite as long as you do.

Good luck the next time you play her! Good exercise is definitely a great side effect of a strong singles tennis match.

[asked_answered]

So, since my last bad loss, I played at line 1 doubles a couple of weeks ago against the number one team in our league and played well in the first set, then had consistency issues in the second set, garnering a 5-7, 0-6 score. I also played at line 1 singles today against a moderate 3.5 player and won 7-5, 6-3, after falling behind 0-4 in the first set. (I was hitting everything long and wide, until I calmed myself down and focused.) Once those first four games were behind me, I felt like I hit the ball well and placed it well, particularly on my forehand side (at least for my mid-3.5 level).

One amusing part of the day was that the other team jokingly asked to see my birth certificate, after the match was done. (I'm in my early 40s, and my opponent was definitely a lot older.) I guess that means I moved well while I played.

[Fuji]

Originally Posted by asked_answered

So, since my last bad loss, I played at line 1 doubles a couple of weeks ago against the number one team in our league and played well in the first set, then had consistency issues in the second set, garnering a 5-7, 0-6 score. I also played at line 1 singles today against a moderate 3.5 player and won 7-5, 6-3, after falling behind 0-4 in the first set. (I was hitting everything long and wide, until I calmed myself down and focused.) Once those first four games were behind me, I felt like I hit the ball well and placed it well, particularly on my forehand side (at least for my mid-3.5 level).

One amusing part of the day was that the other team jokingly asked to see my birth certificate, after the match was done. (I'm in my early 40s, and my opponent was definitely a lot older.) I guess that means I moved well while I played.

That's awesome!!! Great job bud!

-Fuji

[asked_answered]

Originally Posted by Fuji

That's awesome!!! Great job bud!

-Fuji

Thanks, Fuji! I'm just glad I didn't self-destruct like I did in my last singles match.

[Winning Ugly]

Hi "Asked" -- I posted the lengthy bits of advice a few weeks back.

Just wanted to let you know the 4.0 stuck in year-end ratings. Now comes the big challenge. I will play on a >40 team and a >55 team at the 4.0 level this year.

I know that, if I do not get back to working hard on fitness, I will not stick at 4.0. I need to lose about 20 lbs. and increase strength 10%. Nice to have a goal.

Good luck to you -- I am convinced you will make it with your dedicated efforts. Just remember, your strokes are probably already good enough. It is your mental and physical preparation that will make the difference...

[LeeD]

His strokes are waaaay too weak to be competitive in 4.0, although it would work to just play at that level.
He can tell you the same thing.
Now if he adopted a pusher mentality, his strokes would be strong enough, but his strokes don't work with a pusher mentality because he's working on normal strokes, not just bunting the ball over and over.

[Winning Ugly]

Originally Posted by LeeD

His strokes are waaaay too weak to be competitive in 4.0, although it would work to just play at that level.
He can tell you the same thing.
Now if he adopted a pusher mentality, his strokes would be strong enough, but his strokes don't work with a pusher mentality because he's working on normal strokes, not just bunting the ball over and over.

Pushers don't win at 4.0 doubles and rarely at 3.5 doubles. Nor do players who blast from the baseline with beautiful form and no plan.

Since I have won a lot at 3.5, and enough at 4.0 that the computer put me there, I think I can speak from relevant experience. There is a difference between the pusher mentality and percentage tennis. There is a difference between a defensive stroke and the "chip and charge." Not to put myself anywhere near that level, but I suppose you would put Borg and Gilbert in the "pusher" catgory. Big mistake IMHO.

Anyway, if after all these years the OP's strokes are really that weak, then something else is going on. I've not seen his strokes, but my guess is he is changing too many things rather than getting good enough, and then getting consistent, strong and smart. It reminds me of golfers who tweak all their lives, barely break 90, then get old and die. They'll never be scratch golfers and it is a fool's errand to go about life trying to do so.

The time to get perfect is when you are 7-15. After that, you are just kidding yourself -- a great athlete can get very good, but innately great strokes are patterned early.

Now if the OP wants to attain beautiful strokes, then have at it. If he wants to move from 3.5 to 4.0 (thread title) at the age of 42 with presumably a full-time job, then he might just benefit from what I have to say. He is 6'1" and 180 so he might have the tools to develop bigger strokes than I could win with. But he does not have forever to do so.

I will be following this thread.

Good luck OP!

[LeeD]

Not that everything you say is invalid, but lots are based on ASSUMPTIONS.
I've seen the strokes. Good form, very slow rackethead speed, very conservative movement, just novice stuff if we consider tennis goes from 3.0 all the way to 7.0.
Operative words, YOU have not seen his strokes.

[asked_answered]

Originally Posted by Winning Ugly

Hi "Asked" -- I posted the lengthy bits of advice a few weeks back.

Just wanted to let you know the 4.0 stuck in year-end ratings. Now comes the big challenge. I will play on a >40 team and a >55 team at the 4.0 level this year.

I know that, if I do not get back to working hard on fitness, I will not stick at 4.0. I need to lose about 20 lbs. and increase strength 10%. Nice to have a goal.

Good luck to you -- I am convinced you will make it with your dedicated efforts. Just remember, your strokes are probably already good enough. It is your mental and physical preparation that will make the difference...

Congratulations on the end-of-season 4.0 rating! I hope your seasons go well!

And thanks! I'll keep working on my game. I don't think I'm hitting at a 4.0 level, and I'm definitely not playing at the 4.0 level yet. My mental game is getting better, though, and that's given me two solid singles matches in a row (the last win I posted about and a respectable loss today). Onward!

[asked_answered]

So, I played a very strong 3.5 player today in singles (likely the last match of the season for me), and I played solid tennis, losing 3-6, 3-6. He's 7-1 (now 8-1) this season and hits strong, consistent shots. I was hitting well when I was in position (served well, too), but my feet felt gluey for some reason. (I tried bouncing around between points, but it didn't work.) So, I worked hard to keep hitting solid shots (to his backhand when I could) and keep my mental attitude focused and positive. We had several long rallies where the ball was going back and forth with pace or spin. (Both of us changed up the pace and shot types during our points.) He was just more consistent than I was. On another day, my slower-than-normal feet and the consequent occasional erratic shots would have really frustrated me and led to a bad loss, so my tough mental play was a victory in itself.

During the off-season, my three priorities will be 1) balancing power and consistency on my groundies, 2) better footwork all around, and 3) a more consistent return of serve.

[Winning Ugly]

Originally Posted by LeeD

Not that everything you say is invalid, but lots are based on ASSUMPTIONS.
I've seen the strokes. Good form, very slow rackethead speed, very conservative movement, just novice stuff if we consider tennis goes from 3.0 all the way to 7.0.
Operative words, YOU have not seen his strokes.

Fair enough -- but I have read much of this thread and I have a feeling...but, you are right, it's just a feeling...

And, to be fair, a solid 3.5 is hardly a "novice" given that 5.0 to 7.0 are many standard deviations above the mean, representing levels which very few competitive players ever see. 4.5 is probably somewhere better than 1 standard deviation above the mean, and 4.0 is well above the mean AND median of competitive players (do a search on this site and you'll see the supporting statistics).

Give the OP credit -- once you are a "strong" 3.5 you are probably already at the median of competitive USTA league players. If that is a novice, I would not want you grading my papers!!!!!

[Winning Ugly]

Originally Posted by Winning Ugly

Fair enough -- but I have read much of this thread and I have a feeling...but, you are right, it's just a feeling...

And, to be fair, a solid 3.5 is hardly a "novice" given that 5.0 to 7.0 are many standard deviations above the mean, representing levels which very few competitive players ever see. 4.5 is probably somewhere better than 1 standard deviation above the mean, and 4.0 is well above the mean AND median of competitive players (do a search on this site and you'll see the supporting statistics).

Give the OP credit -- once you are a "strong" 3.5 you are probably already at the median of competitive USTA league players. If that is a novice, I would not want you grading my papers!!!!!

I went back and watched OP's strokes videos. I have to admit I see your point so I stand "somewhat" corrected. Reason I do not concede fully was reinforced tonight -- I was playing on a court next to a 4.5 woman with really unorthodox self-taught strokes, but she always puts the ball exactly where she wants to. She exemplifies the smart, fit, persistent approach I recommend. Not a pusher, either -- just an all court game where spin, accuracy and "hitting 'em where they ain't" is the key. Of course, she is in her university's hall of fame as a basketball player, so there is some off-the-charts athleticism there, though she's now in her late 50's.

Why do I say unorthodox? I sensed a sort of disconnect between OP's arms and body through the swing, which might be leading to a loss of consistency and control, particularly under pressure. I wonder if that's just me guessing or would a pro see something like what I am seeing. If I am correct, you have to be a superb athlete with great timing to overcome that.

Anyway, I've beaten better looking strokes, and lost to worse, so I still stress all the other stuff, especially the three most important things -- fitness, fitness, fitness (I include core strength in that description).

Good luck A&A!!!!!