New USTA PPR Point Table for 2012

[gully]

Originally Posted by tball2day

Ya those foreigners do great. They come to our colleges, play tennis and major in basket weaving to get it all done successfully. Woohoo for them.

Wow. Do you realize that it takes a great deal of intellect, confidence, and athleticism do be able to earn a scholarship and complete a degree in a second (or third, or fourth) language, in a foreign country? The kids who do so have MY respect.

[tennis5]

Originally Posted by cmb

You guys are something else.

This is nonsense....I know some French/German/Spanish guys that never leave their region of their country (which is about the size of texas) and come out just fine. They still have not found a way to get Juniors, College players, and Pros all playing the same tournaments on a consistent basis......thats the real problem.

If you are not a junior or a tennis parent of an American junior,
it must be hard for you to realize or understand that the whole country is not like regions of France, Germany or Spain.

In some regions of the country,
and I guess you have never played junior tournaments in our country....
the tennis level is vastly different in each region.

I think you would understand that if you grew up here and played the USTA national junior tournament schedule.

However, as you did not, I am sure you have no idea what I am talking about.

[treeman10]

------------------

[justinmadison]

The new PPR table does nothing to fix the problem introduced with the 2011 tournament changes. If anything it makes them worse. All this change will do is compress the point differential for the kids trying to qualify. Once again the changes have a profound negative effect on kids trying to age up. If you age up in 2012 how are you going to compete against kids who received points under the old system? You have no chance of playing nationally this year.

People keep talking about playing up as a possible solution. It’s not. Everyone knows you must play up to have a chance to advance so everyone is trying for those couple of spots. In the last draw I looked at the #16 kid in the nation did not qualify for a spot. Good luck with that.

The USTA is trying to manage two incompatible goals. On the one hand they would like to have the best kids compete at the national level. On the other hand they do not want kids to travel. You cannot have both. If you regionalize advancement to national play you will advance the best kids in a region, not the best kids in the country.

The system had tried to balance these objectives by allowing some kids to advance based on sectional quotes and other kids to advance based on national ranking. This works when you allow the national ranking hopefuls the opportunity to play for points against other sections. Under the old system this was done in the L3 events. People on this board continually complained about “point chasers” but this is exactly what the USTA needs. Point chasers improve the competition levels at tournaments. When you allow inter section play for national points is creates an opportunity for the kids in strong sections to compete for points and determine if their section deserves additional representation in national play.

[andfor]

Originally Posted by tball2day

Ya those foreigners do great. They come to our colleges, play tennis and major in basket weaving to get it all done successfully. Woohoo for them.

All foreigners take basket weaving and no Americans take basket weaving? I'm going to chalk your comment up to sarcasm, although it wouldn't surprise me if it was serious.

[gully]

While except for a few events this winter and next summer, my family is finishedwith USTA junior competition. My daughter really benefited quite a bit as a player from moving up through sectional play to the national opens and then supernats. She would never have been a threat to win any such event, but her game grew a lot from the competition. She also got to play far more kids with different gameplay styles from different sections in different conditions than she ever would under the new system.

Although she decided to play college tennis not too far from home, I really think the new system would deny a mid-tier kid like her the opportunity to play up through sectionals to national play.

While it's pretty clear that the changes are intended to benefit the top tier -- and I have no problem with that -- I just don't see really how it will do so. And for the next tier, the kids will be pretty much consigned to playing in their sections. Not the worst fate in the world for many, but still, I don't see that the new system with any clear advantage.

[TennisCoachFLA]

Originally Posted by justinmadison

Point chasers improve the competition levels at tournaments.

The point chasers I see many times are mediocre kids whose parents are willing to have them play 30 tournaments, go a round or 2, and collect points over time that makes their ranking look much better than their actual playing ability.

I don't think this type of point chaser helps the level of competition. But it does fill out some draws and provides more revenue so its not all bad.

[andfor]

Originally Posted by TennisCoachFLA

The point chasers I see many times are mediocre kids whose parents are willing to have them play 30 tournaments, go a round or 2, and collect points over time that makes their ranking look much better than their actual playing ability.

I don't think this type of point chaser helps the level of competition. But it does fill out some draws and provides more revenue so its not all bad.

Same thing happens at the sectional level.

Random thought: Lately regarding this and much more of this matter I've had thoughts about the words "commitment" and "tennis".

I've found the meaning to be interesting depending on who you talk to.

[treeman10]

-----------------

[tennis5]

Originally Posted by gully

While except for a few events this winter and next summer, my family is finishedwith USTA junior competition. My daughter really benefited quite a bit as a player from moving up through sectional play to the national opens and then supernats. She would never have been a threat to win any such event, but her game grew a lot from the competition. She also got to play far more kids with different gameplay styles from different sections in different conditions than she ever would under the new system.

Although she decided to play college tennis not too far from home, I really think the new system would deny a mid-tier kid like her the opportunity to play up through sectionals to national play.

While it's pretty clear that the changes are intended to benefit the top tier -- and I have no problem with that -- I just don't see really how it will do so. And for the next tier, the kids will be pretty much consigned to playing in their sections. Not the worst fate in the world for many, but still, I don't see that the new system with any clear advantage.

Bingo.
That is what helped my son's game.
Going to different parts of the country and seeing how it is played when you are not inside a bubble.
Playing the same kids over and over again doesn't help grow anyone's game.

[tennis5]

Originally Posted by justinmadison

The new PPR table does nothing to fix the problem introduced with the 2011 tournament changes. If anything it makes them worse. All this change will do is compress the point differential for the kids trying to qualify. Once again the changes have a profound negative effect on kids trying to age up. If you age up in 2012 how are you going to compete against kids who received points under the old system? You have no chance of playing nationally this year.

People keep talking about playing up as a possible solution. It’s not. Everyone knows you must play up to have a chance to advance so everyone is trying for those couple of spots. In the last draw I looked at the #16 kid in the nation did not qualify for a spot. Good luck with that.

The USTA is trying to manage two incompatible goals. On the one hand they would like to have the best kids compete at the national level. On the other hand they do not want kids to travel. You cannot have both. If you regionalize advancement to national play you will advance the best kids in a region, not the best kids in the country.

The system had tried to balance these objectives by allowing some kids to advance based on sectional quotes and other kids to advance based on national ranking. This works when you allow the national ranking hopefuls the opportunity to play for points against other sections. Under the old system this was done in the L3 events. People on this board continually complained about “point chasers” but this is exactly what the USTA needs. Point chasers improve the competition levels at tournaments. When you allow inter section play for national points is creates an opportunity for the kids in strong sections to compete for points and determine if their section deserves additional representation in national play.

My theory is that Kennedy...

Ok, my theory is that the USTA just wants one kid out of this whole junior system to play at the US Open.

They limit competition to their few kids that they pour millions into....,
and their kids play at USTA tournaments with only the few best outsider kids.
(they don't care about the rest, those are the masses of due payers)
and their kids always will get in to the tournaments via the wild card when they need to age up.

[TennisCoachFLA]

Originally Posted by tennis5

Bingo.
That is what helped my son's game.
Going to different parts of the country and seeing how it is played when you are not inside a bubble.
Playing the same kids over and over again doesn't help grow anyone's game.

Depends on the part of the country, depends on the kid, depends on tons of other things. I have seen kids who improve over the years playing other sports in addition to tennis, and only play the same kids at their clubs. As they mature, so do their friends and their friend's games.

Others just play some local tournaments and spend time on drills and development. Lots of ways to get there.

You don't really play the "same kids" anyway. As those kids get older, most times their games change. So playing same basic group at age 10 and playing them through age 16 you will see plenty of changes over time.

The one thing it does help to get "out of the bubble" is delusions. I see kids from one part of the country who think they are top dog get absolutely destroyed when they face the kids from FL and Cali.

[cmb]

Originally Posted by tennis5

If you are not a junior or a tennis parent of an American junior,
it must be hard for you to realize or understand that the whole country is not like regions of France, Germany or Spain.

In some regions of the country,
and I guess you have never played junior tournaments in our country....
the tennis level is vastly different in each region.

I think you would understand that if you grew up here and played the USTA national junior tournament schedule.

However, as you did not, I am sure you have no idea what I am talking about.

Yes I did play in Juniors here in the states until the 16s, as I am an american. I dont understand when you say that junior tennis will become weaker if you take travel out of the equation. to me thats nonsense. Because after the 16s I moved to Germany and finished out my juniors there, except I never played Junior tournaments there because their tournaments are open level!!

And I also saved tons of money on travel because I never played a tournament more then an hour away from my house. The result....I got a scholarship to a top 20 D 1 program, so I would say I know what im talking about.

after reading your post again...I don't even understand what you are trying to say. I know that you are trying to knock my comments. But you make no sense at all, typical american comments/dribble.

[tennis5]

Originally Posted by cmb

Yes I did play in Juniors here in the states until the 16s, as I am an american. I dont understand when you say that junior tennis will become weaker if you take travel out of the equation. to me thats nonsense. Because after the 16s I moved to Germany and finished out my juniors there, except I never played Junior tournaments there because their tournaments are open level!!

And I also saved tons of money on travel because I never played a tournament more then an hour away from my house. The result....I got a scholarship to a top 20 D 1 program, so I would say I know what im talking about.

The reason is the better players are not all evenly distributed throughout the sections.
Some juniors have to travel to get to play with better players and also experience different kind of play.
Also, most of the big national tournaments are in warm weather areas where there are many courts, so you have to travel to get there.
I am sure if you were a top junior you traveled to winter nationals, Easter Bowl, clay courts, kalamazoo...


I don't think we are going to agree here....

[gully]

Originally Posted by cmb

typical american comments/dribble.

The word you seek is drivel. Dribble is what you do in basketball or find on your chin.

[chalkflewup]

Personally, I just don't care about rankings. Development and match play are much more important to me than rankings. As my kid gets older, it will take care of itself. Ask a Bollettieri kid what he/she is ranked -- most of them say I don't know.

[TennisCoachFLA]

Originally Posted by gully

The word you seek is drivel. Dribble is what you do in basketball or find on your chin.

I actually tend to agree with him..but this comment is really funny!

[TennisFan2Day]

This is another case of Jay Berger at his best. This is the only way he can protect his select few players. He has WC spots for all of his players into the Supers so it doesn't matter what they do all year long. Why do you think he had the number of WC spots for the Supers increased last year?

The guy has proven that he doesn't know how to pick talent and then takes credit for players like Sock.

How he has managed to keep his position is incredible. How many other people do you know who could blatently fail at their position and keep their job?

The other thing that is amazing is how they wait until only a couple of months to go and then change it. Do you see ANY other governing body who changes their rules on a yearly basis? NO, because they don't make decisions in one night that affect thousands of players.

[andfor]

Originally Posted by TennisFan2Day

This is another case of Jay Berger at his best. This is the only way he can protect his select few players. He has WC spots for all of his players into the Supers so it doesn't matter what they do all year long. Why do you think he had the number of WC spots for the Supers increased last year?

The guy has proven that he doesn't know how to pick talent and then takes credit for players like Sock.

How he has managed to keep his position is incredible. How many other people do you know who could blatently fail at their position and keep their job?

The other thing that is amazing is how they wait until only a couple of months to go and then change it. Do you see ANY other governing body who changes their rules on a yearly basis? NO, because they don't make decisions in one night that affect thousands of players.

Just curious to know more about how Jay Berger can be considered a failure. Care to elaborate? When did he take credit for Sock?

The U.S. Congress make crappy decisions all the time. Ref. ObamaCare.

[TennisCoachFLA]

Originally Posted by andfor

Just curious to know more about how Jay Berger can be considered a failure. Care to elaborate? When did he take credit for Sock?

The U.S. Congress make crappy decisions all the time. Ref. ObamaCare.

Actually you can find just as many studies that show the Affordable Care Act has been quite helpful, depends on who you choose to listen too. But that is not for this board, the moderators are quite clear they do not want political references.