Ashe vs. McEnroe Grand Prix Masters Cup Final 1978

[Limpinhitter]

Woah! I don't know if this has been posted already, but, it appears that the whole match is up on YT in 13 clips. It looks like very high quality tennis, too. Ashe's serve looks a bit modified. He's tossing more out to the right than he did when younger. Perhaps he's compensating for an injury. He's still cranking it though.

Here are links to the first 5 clips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL1zB...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THt22...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW53U...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SDbB...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcvsO...eature=related

[gavna]

Awesome find! I was a ball boy at that match and I just spent the last hour showing my son how goofy I looked running out there!!!! Hahaha. Coolest thing was 3 of us working the event were 2 and 3 years behind John at Port Washington and he was talking smack about Ashe the whole match to us.......after the match the 3 of us were taken to task for "engaging" the players??? Hilarious

[pc1]

Were you at the Gottfried match against Ashe also? I remember Ashe a thunderbolt backhand at Gottfried at the net that Brian somehow returned and Ashe blasted the next shot (forgot if it was a backhand or not) past him. But I remember it was so powerfully hit and the commentators mention it in the Ashe/McEnroe match.

Do you recall that backhand?

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by gavna

Awesome find! I was a ball boy at that match and I just spent the last hour showing my son how goofy I looked running out there!!!! Hahaha. Coolest thing was 3 of us working the event were 2 and 3 years behind John at Port Washington and he was talking smack about Ashe the whole match to us.......after the match the 3 of us were taken to task for "engaging" the players??? Hilarious

Wow! Very cool story!

[NLBwell]

Didn't even realize these two had played. Two of my favorites to watch. Pretty impressive that Arthur got in the top 10 at that age coming back from injury.

[pc1]

Originally Posted by NLBwell

Didn't even realize these two had played. Two of my favorites to watch. Pretty impressive that Arthur got in the top 10 at that age coming back from injury.

I saw the match on television. At match point for Ashe, Arthur hit a McEnroe serve for a seeming winner and was thought to have won the match but the serve was called out. McEnroe came back to win the match. According to McEnroe, Ashe disagreed with that call to the ends of his days.

Haven't seen that match since it was on live.

[Ronaldo]

Originally Posted by pc1

I saw the match on television. At match point for Ashe, Arthur hit a McEnroe serve for a seeming winner and was thought to have won the match but the serve was called out. McEnroe came back to win the match. According to McEnroe, Ashe disagreed with that call to the ends of his days.

Haven't seen that match since it was on live.

Was this the match that AA stood in the alley in the ad court to take away the lefty wide serve, daring John to serve down the middle? Three-setter

[Datacipher]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

Woah! I don't know if this has been posted already, but, it appears that the whole match is up on YT in 13 clips. It looks like very high quality tennis, too. Ashe's serve looks a bit modified. He's tossing more out to the right than he did when younger. Perhaps he's compensating for an injury. He's still cranking it though.

Later in his career, Ashe was a big proponent of tossing the ball far to the right. I'm not sure if Vic Braden influenced him on that, but I'm sure they very likely talked about it, as Vic analyzed Arthur's serve, and had talks with him about biomechanics. The toss to the right is something Vic strongly advocates as well.

PS. Nice story Gavna.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by Ronaldo

Was this the match that AA stood in the alley in the ad court to take away the lefty wide serve, daring John to serve down the middle? Three-setter

Yes it is.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by Datacipher

Later in his career, Ashe was a big proponent of tossing the ball far to the right. I'm not sure if Vic Braden influenced him on that, but I'm sure they very likely talked about it, as Vic analyzed Arthur's serve, and had talks with him about biomechanics. The toss to the right is something Vic strongly advocates as well.

PS. Nice story Gavna.

To me, Ashe's racquet drop looks much better in this match, not the semi-straight arm motion he had throughout most of his career.

[Moose Malloy]

SI says that Mac beat Ashe 6-3, 6-1 earlier in the week in the round robin, making only one unforced error. looks like the ue count was probably pretty low in this match as well.

Borg and Vilas didn't play this event since they were told they weren't eligible for any of the bonus pool for not playing enough grand prix events that year.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...41/2/index.htm

I saw the match on television. At match point for Ashe, Arthur hit a McEnroe serve for a seeming winner and was thought to have won the match but the serve was called out. McEnroe came back to win the match. According to McEnroe, Ashe disagreed with that call to the ends of his days.

that's pretty weird if true, to be that upset that your opponents 1st serve was called out when you are up match point(& looks like the call was immediate)

Ashe then badly missed the 2nd serve return.

[Ronaldo]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

Yes it is.

Supposedly Ashe was the first to use this tactic to counter the lefty bender.

[gavna]

Originally Posted by pc1

Were you at the Gottfried match against Ashe also? I remember Ashe a thunderbolt backhand at Gottfried at the net that Brian somehow returned and Ashe blasted the next shot (forgot if it was a backhand or not) past him. But I remember it was so powerfully hit and the commentators mention it in the Ashe/McEnroe match.

Do you recall that backhand?

No I did the other semi JMac v Dibbs.....my most vivid memory that week was having to work the Ramirez v Barazutti....ugh long and soooo boring in an almost empty garden I got to miss 3 days of school and I remember wishing I was back in class. Barazutti also a surly guy and all the players talking crap about him....On the positive side we got to hit with guys like Dibbs and JMac and Fleming, Dibbs would hit with anyone!
All the late 70s events in the New York area seemed to be Port Wash reunions....hahaha

[pc1]

Originally Posted by gavna

No I did the other semi JMac v Dibbs.....my most vivid memory that week was having to work the Ramirez v Barazutti....ugh long and soooo boring in an almost empty garden I got to miss 3 days of school and I remember wishing I was back in class. Barazutti also a surly guy and all the players talking crap about him....On the positive side we got to hit with guys like Dibbs and JMac and Fleming, Dibbs would hit with anyone!
All the late 70s events in the New York area seemed to be Port Wash reunions....hahaha

Too bad the match was so boring. But it must have been fun to hit with all the guys.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by Moose Malloy

SI says that Mac beat Ashe 6-3, 6-1 earlier in the week in the round robin, making only one unforced error. looks like the ue count was probably pretty low in this match as well.

Borg and Vilas didn't play this event since they were told they weren't eligible for any of the bonus pool for not playing enough grand prix events that year.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...41/2/index.htm

* * *

Yes, all of that is explained by Trabert and Sommerall in the video as well.

[pc1]

Originally Posted by Moose Malloy

SI says that Mac beat Ashe 6-3, 6-1 earlier in the week in the round robin, making only one unforced error. looks like the ue count was probably pretty low in this match as well.

Borg and Vilas didn't play this event since they were told they weren't eligible for any of the bonus pool for not playing enough grand prix events that year.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...41/2/index.htm




that's pretty weird if true, to be that upset that your opponents 1st serve was called out when you are up match point(& looks like the call was immediate)

Ashe then badly missed the 2nd serve return.

I wish they had the technology we have now to call the lines. It would have been storybook if Ashe won that match.

[Moose Malloy]

I wish they had the technology we have now to call the lines. It would have been storybook if Ashe won that match

and it would have been a pretty bizarre situation, someone challenging against themself because they thought they hit a winner on a fault serve return (has that ever happened?) & it would probably very anti-climatic. I can imagine the threads here if something like that ever happened today.

In fact in that situation(a challenge calling the serve in) it may be a replay under the rules(I'm sure Mac argue if it wasn't - saying he stopped playing after the out call)

watching the clip it didn't even seem like a remotely controversial point (no complaint by Ashe, just a slight pause after the out call)

[pc1]

Originally Posted by Moose Malloy

and it would have been a pretty bizarre situation, someone challenging against themself because they thought they hit a winner on a fault serve return (has that ever happened?) & it would probably very anti-climatic. I can imagine the threads here if something like that ever happened today.

In fact in that situation(a challenge calling the serve in) it may be a replay under the rules(I'm sure Mac argue if it wasn't - saying he stopped playing after the out call)

watching the clip it didn't even seem like a remotely controversial point (no complaint by Ashe, just a slight pause after the out call)

Bizarre but interesting. Didn't Federer do something like that a few years ago? I don't exactly recall the situation.

It doesn't matter because there was no technology like that at that time. But I would have been curious if the first serve was in.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by pc1

Were you at the Gottfried match against Ashe also? I remember Ashe a thunderbolt backhand at Gottfried at the net that Brian somehow returned and Ashe blasted the next shot (forgot if it was a backhand or not) past him. But I remember it was so powerfully hit and the commentators mention it in the Ashe/McEnroe match.

Do you recall that backhand?

After 2-3 poor years, Ashe was playing with the confidence of " old " Arthur at the end of 78 and the beginning of 79.His BH was again at full form and kept blasting returns like that, he really deserved beating JMac.

Another match I recall of that year ( 79) was his triumph over Gerulaitis ( by then, world´s nº 4) at Phily, after being 0-2 and winning the third set tie break just by mm

[Ronaldo]

Originally Posted by kiki

After 2-3 poor years, Ashe was playing with the confidence of " old " Arthur at the end of 78 and the beginning of 79.His BH was again at full form and kept blasting returns like that, he really deserved beating JMac.

Another match I recall of that year ( 79) was his triumph over Gerulaitis ( by then, world´s nº 4) at Phily, after being 0-2 and winning the third set tie break just by mm

He had his 1st heart attack in July 1979. Did he ever play again?