In OZ, Rafa tried more hitting through Nole. It worked better than patty-caking him.

[DeShaun]

But what will happen at the French w/this tactic, where rally tolerance becomes a greater factor and nobody's likely going to be hitting through anybody, save for a fluke like Delpo or Soderling getting hot?

[jackson vile]

Who ever moves best with best endurance wins, all else being equal.

[Murrayfan31]

Yep a lot harder to hit through Djoker on clay. Djokovic is king of all surfaces now but maybe is most vulnerable on a fast court.

[mcenroefan]

I think the FO will play faster than the AO.

[NamRanger]

Originally Posted by DeShaun

But what will happen at the French w/this tactic, where rally tolerance becomes a greater factor and nobody's likely going to be hitting through anybody, save for a fluke like Delpo or Soderling getting hot?

Nadal has no chance against Novak on clay for the very reason that Nadal is the one that gets moved around on clay, and has no way to hit through Novak on the clay. People who keep believing that somehow just because Nadal is great on clay that he will magically figure out how to beat Novak on clay. Clay is the surface that exposes your weaknesses as a tennis player most; Nadal's weakness is his one dimensional style of play. Once he got figured out by Novak, he's pretty much done for on a surface where you have to straight up outplay your opponent rather than try to go for broke.

[Tammo]

Originally Posted by NamRanger

Nadal has no chance against Novak on clay for the very reason that Nadal is the one that gets moved around on clay, and has no way to hit through Novak on the clay. People who keep believing that somehow just because Nadal is great on clay that he will magically figure out how to beat Novak on clay. Clay is the surface that exposes your weaknesses as a tennis player most; Nadal's weakness is his one dimensional style of play. Once he got figured out by Novak, he's pretty much done for on a surface where you have to straight up outplay your opponent rather than try to go for broke.

Nadal always is the favorite against whoever is on the opposite side of the court in a clay match. And Nadal isn't one dimensional when playing a clay. He has the best claycourt records of all time.

[Murrayfan31]

Originally Posted by Tammo

Nadal always is the favorite against whoever is on the opposite side of the court in a clay match. And Nadal isn't one dimensional when playing a clay. He has the best claycourt records of all time.

Djokovic won 4 straight sets against Nadal on clay. Nadal actually got closer to beating Djokovic on hardcourts last year.

[Fed Kennedy]

Originally Posted by DeShaun

But what will happen at the French w/this tactic, where rally tolerance becomes a greater factor and nobody's likely going to be hitting through anybody, save for a fluke like Delpo or Soderling getting hot?

He will lose? (again)

[DeShaun]

Originally Posted by Tammo

Nadal always is the favorite against whoever is on the opposite side of the court in a clay match. And Nadal isn't one dimensional when playing a clay. He has the best claycourt records of all time.

Nadal is unlikely to be referring to himself as the favorite, especially against Djokovic on any surface.

[NamRanger]

Originally Posted by Tammo

Nadal always is the favorite against whoever is on the opposite side of the court in a clay match. And Nadal isn't one dimensional when playing a clay. He has the best claycourt records of all time.

Novak utterly bludgeoned Nadal to death on clay in straight sets. The Nadal fans who would tell you that he "declined" are all absolute idiots. Novak made Nadal look bad because clay is the one surface where you can't run and gun your way out of situations with a serve or a big forehand like Nadal did countless of times at the AO.


Clay is a surface where you have to craft points, move your opponent around, utilize the WHOLE court, and just simply play better tennis all around.


Nadal is a one dimensional player, especially on clay. All he can do is play the most phenomenal defensive baseline game of all time. It is still ONE DIMENSIONAL. Djokovic just exposes this, and finds it even easier to do so on clay because Nadal has no opportunities to hit through Djokovic anymore. The last two matches on clay are a testament to this. Nadal had no answer and had no way to hit through Novak.

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by mcenroefan

I think the FO will play faster than the AO.

Unless it's as sunny and hot at the French Open as it was in 1996, that isn't going to happen. I'm baffled by those saying Plexicushion is slow, when Rebound Ace was slower.

[vllaznia]

Originally Posted by Mustard

Unless it's as sunny and hot at the French Open as it was in 1996, that isn't going to happen. I'm baffled by those saying Plexicushion is slow, when Rebound Ace was slower.

Are you serious? Plexicushion is much slower than Rebound Ace.

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by vllaznia

Are you serious? Plexicushion is much slower than Rebound Ace.

No, it isn't. Ask Lleyton Hewitt, Rebound Ace is slow and high bouncing. It's the tennis equipment that has changed the game more than the surface. Imaging Nadal playing with a 1990s racquet. He ain't going to get anywhere near the same kind of topspin or depth as he does today, so volleyers could take advantage back then.

[CDestroyer]

Originally Posted by NamRanger

Novak utterly bludgeoned Nadal to death on clay in straight sets. The Nadal fans who would tell you that he "declined" are all absolute idiots. Novak made Nadal look bad because clay is the one surface where you can't run and gun your way out of situations with a serve or a big forehand like Nadal did countless of times at the AO.


Clay is a surface where you have to craft points, move your opponent around, utilize the WHOLE court, and just simply play better tennis all around.


Nadal is a one dimensional player, especially on clay. All he can do is play the most phenomenal defensive baseline game of all time. It is still ONE DIMENSIONAL. Djokovic just exposes this, and finds it even easier to do so on clay because Nadal has no opportunities to hit through Djokovic anymore. The last two matches on clay are a testament to this. Nadal had no answer and had no way to hit through Novak.

Great post. I agree with everything you said.

[namelessone]

Originally Posted by NamRanger

The Nadal fans who would tell you that he "declined" are all absolute idiots.

And yet the ones that think that a player is in his prime in his 7TH season(2011) dominating that surface(2005-2010) think themselves geniuses.

Nadal loses sets on clay to nr.130 in the world, gets taken to five by Isner in RG, is nearly breadsticked by a guy who made 2 clay finals by 25, has trouble dispatching a 30 year old favorable matchup(even with Nadal being prime/peak and Fed being post prime in this scenario) in the final.

Yup, sounds like prime Nadal on clay. Peak, now that I think about it.

[Mike Sams]

Originally Posted by namelessone

And yet the ones that think that a player is in his prime in his 7TH season(2011) dominating that surface(2005-2010) think themselves geniuses.

Nadal loses sets on clay to nr.130 in the world, gets taken to five by Isner in RG, is nearly breadsticked by a guy who made 2 clay finals by 25, has trouble dispatching a 30 year old favorable matchup(even with Nadal being prime/peak and Fed being post prime in this scenario) in the final.

Yup, sounds like prime Nadal on clay. Peak, now that I think about it.

Or maybe the competition is improving on clay? It's not always about the scoreline. What matters is Nadal still fairly comfortably makes finals. He had tough matches on clay even in 2007-2008 against Starachi, Hewitt, Davydenko, etc. Always had very tough matches against Federer and Djokovic throughout the years.
Nadal is in his physical prime right now. There are ZERO excuses. His clay game is the same as it's always been. Djokovic and Federer were his 2 biggest rivals on clay for years. They always were his toughest foes. Always able to take sets off him on clay.

[FlamEnemY]

All I know is that if Nadal's only "adjustment" is hitting loopy backhand junk balls to Nole then he's screwed.

[TennisFan3]

Originally Posted by NamRanger

Novak utterly bludgeoned Nadal to death on clay in straight sets. The Nadal fans who would tell you that he "declined" are all absolute idiots. Novak made Nadal look bad because clay is the one surface where you can't run and gun your way out of situations with a serve or a big forehand like Nadal did countless of times at the AO.


Clay is a surface where you have to craft points, move your opponent around, utilize the WHOLE court, and just simply play better tennis all around.


Nadal is a one dimensional player, especially on clay. All he can do is play the most phenomenal defensive baseline game of all time. It is still ONE DIMENSIONAL. Djokovic just exposes this, and finds it even easier to do so on clay because Nadal has no opportunities to hit through Djokovic anymore. The last two matches on clay are a testament to this. Nadal had no answer and had no way to hit through Novak.

While I agree with your overall point, I think you're pushing it a little bit. Djokovic would definitely be the favorite against Nadal on clay. Maybe even more than he is on hardcourts, but it certainly won't be a massacre. I'm sure Nadal won't be moonballing his backhands next time he faces Djokovic on clay. Of course, that probably won't be enough to win, but I would be surprised if he's straight setted twice again..

I really don't believe Nadal played his best tennis on the clay season in 2011. And even if you're biased, this was easy to see in his matches against other players not named Djokovic. And this was before he even faced Djokovic in Madrid.

The other part of the story is that Djokovic played amazing IMO on clay especially against Nadal. His Rome 2011 Final was possibly the best tennis I saw from him in 2011. Nadal actually didn't play that bad in the Rome final, but still got straight setted. Djokovic (perhaps mindful of the fatigue from the SF against Murray) was on FIRE and just bludgeoned everything Rafa threw at him.

Can Djokovic produce the same level in 2012? I don't think he's played that well since. Sure, if he does, then Nadal's screwed pretty much. But yeah, if Rafa ups his game a little bit he may give Djokovic a run for his money, even if it likely won't be enough to beat him.

[Murrayfan31]

Nadal better hope for a hot and dry day where the ball is flying. Thus allowing quicker conditions.

[TennisFan3]

Originally Posted by Murrayfan31

Nadal better hope for a hot and dry day where the ball is flying. Thus allowing quicker conditions.

That is ALWAYS true for Nadal. Contrary to what people think, Nadal ALWAYS prefers hot, dry conditions when his spin explodes of the court and jumps up high. That is very easy to see. In the F.O 2010 final for example, Nadal's forehand starting doing more damage in the 2nd half of the match when the sun started beating down and the conditions become hotter. For the 1st half, he was just playing defense..