Ashaway 100% Zyex monofilament

[mikeler]

Double post

[Torres]

Originally Posted by corners

I think I'm going to have to try it in a full bed head to head with natural gut in a full bed to really get a handle on this stuff. So that's four tests just for this string, uggh. Still very curious about this stuff though.

^ Try a set and see. It's definitely a different material that offers different characteristics to poly, nylon or natural gut. I'm not convinced that it offers any outright perfomance advantage over other types of strings, but it will be an interesting playtest if nothing else. I can sense that your mouse is hovering over the 'click to buy' button on the TW strings page....

[mikeler]

Originally Posted by Torres

^ Try a set and see. It's definitely a different material that offers different characteristics to poly, nylon or natural gut. I'm not convinced that it offers any outright perfomance advantage over other types of strings, but it will be an interesting playtest if nothing else. I can sense that your mouse is hovering over the 'click to buy' button on the TW strings page....

Just make sure to actually follow the string tension recommendations unlike knucklheads mikeler and Torres.

[corners]

Originally Posted by Torres

^ Try a set and see. It's definitely a different material that offers different characteristics to poly, nylon or natural gut. I'm not convinced that it offers any outright perfomance advantage over other types of strings, but it will be an interesting playtest if nothing else. I can sense that your mouse is hovering over the 'click to buy' button on the TW strings page....

Ha, it was. The only thing that stopped me was the new 17g version, which TW hasn't got in stock yet. But I promise I will test this string in several configs and report back here. Won't be until March though.

[corners]

Originally Posted by mikeler

Just make sure to actually follow the string tension recommendations unlike knucklheads mikeler and Torres.

Yeah, I don't know that you guys knuckleheaded it; Ashaway told me to try 53-55 first, which is around where Torres strung it. But maybe they should be heeded when it comes to their Dynamite stuff.

Ignoring their recommendation, and just going by the stiffness, other lab tests and the few reports we have in, I would string it 2-3 pounds less than I would a full gut job, which means 57 pounds in a mid. But I'll listen to Ashaway and start with 55 in a full job and use that as a reference point. I really liked gut/Prince Recoil at 52/50 in a mid. Recoil is about as slippery as ZX but significantly stiffer. So I'm really hoping gut/ZX at 56 will deliver just the combo of spin and zip I'm looking for. We shall see. Must say I'm wary after reading Torres' comments, even though there was a lot that was positive and intriguing in there too. Just not looking forward to hitting with a pizza box

[Player#1]

Originally Posted by corners

Yeah, I don't know that you guys knuckleheaded it; Ashaway told me to try 53-55 first, which is around where Torres strung it. But maybe they should be heeded when it comes to their Dynamite stuff.

Ignoring their recommendation, and just going by the stiffness, other lab tests and the few reports we have in, I would string it 2-3 pounds less than I would a full gut job, which means 57 pounds in a mid. But I'll listen to Ashaway and start with 55 in a full job and use that as a reference point. I really liked gut/Prince Recoil at 52/50 in a mid. Recoil is about as slippery as ZX but significantly stiffer. So I'm really hoping gut/ZX at 56 will deliver just the combo of spin and zip I'm looking for. We shall see. Must say I'm wary after reading Torres' comments, even though there was a lot that was positive and intriguing in there too. Just not looking forward to hitting with a pizza box

I had the opposite impression regarding tension as the guys who "knuckleheaded" it;

I have no problem controlling a full bed of gut because of the level of pocketing/feel the gut provides. The ZX has that same pocketing/feel, but not quite as much as gut. At the same time, it feels like it has just as much power as gut. My impression was that I would need to string it at 76lbs vs 72lbs for gut in order to control it.

I did not get the boardy feel from it. I actually felt like it made the string bed a lot more forgiving/powerful towards the periphery. I have been using a low powered mid sized 18X20 racket. I hit hard, flat groundies and play aggressive serve-volley tennis.

Maybe the higher tension is why I am getting a different feel from it. This is an interesting string; It falls into a new category of strings.

[Torres]

The other thing I forgot to mention is that it feels like a 'grabby' type of string when you brush up on the ball. In that sense in reminds of some of the grabby, bitey sort of polys but without the firmness. The string definitely wants to put rotations on ball if you hit the right type of stroke.

During my playtest, I don't think my racquet speed was as high as it might have been (with a full bed poly) as I was still feeling my way into the string and getting used to the power from the that sweetspot. Grab is there though, its just that the string's power lengthens the ball trajectory and depth. I don't think I quite had the confidence to consistently take a 100% flat rip at the ball (am used to a firmer stringbed) but its early days with that string.

[mikeler]

Should be warmer today than the last 2 times I hit with Dynamite, so I'll give it one more shot. If I feel any twinges in my wrist again, then it gets the scissors.

[maggmaster]

It hurt my arm, I have no problem with gut poly but this stuff beat my arm up pretty good.

[corners]

Originally Posted by Player#1

I had the opposite impression regarding tension as the guys who "knuckleheaded" it;

I have no problem controlling a full bed of gut because of the level of pocketing/feel the gut provides. The ZX has that same pocketing/feel, but not quite as much as gut. At the same time, it feels like it has just as much power as gut. My impression was that I would need to string it at 76lbs vs 72lbs for gut in order to control it.

I did not get the boardy feel from it. I actually felt like it made the string bed a lot more forgiving/powerful towards the periphery. I have been using a low powered mid sized 18X20 racket. I hit hard, flat groundies and play aggressive serve-volley tennis.

Maybe the higher tension is why I am getting a different feel from it. This is an interesting string; It falls into a new category of strings.

Thanks for your detailed impressions. It kind of sounds like it does show the power that the lab numbers would suggest that it has, but that the pocketing and maybe the launch angle differs from gut enough that a significant adjustment period is required to get a handle on the string. It sure does sound like a new and interesting string. Can't want to try it.

[corners]

Originally Posted by Torres

The other thing I forgot to mention is that it feels like a 'grabby' type of string when you brush up on the ball. In that sense in reminds of some of the grabby, bitey sort of polys but without the firmness. The string definitely wants to put rotations on ball if you hit the right type of stroke.

During my playtest, I don't think my racquet speed was as high as it might have been (with a full bed poly) as I was still feeling my way into the string and getting used to the power from the that sweetspot. Grab is there though, its just that the string's power lengthens the ball trajectory and depth. I don't think I quite had the confidence to consistently take a 100% flat rip at the ball (am used to a firmer stringbed) but its early days with that string.

I attribute that "grabby" feeling to main string sliding and snapback. When the mains slide and snapback dwell time is increased and I think that that is the "grabby" sensation we associate with copolys. This is exactly what I'm looking for - grabby like copoly but more powerful.

Torres, it does sound like this string is unusual enough that a longer than normal adjustment time might be required to get a handle on how it plays. You comment that you weren't hitting at 100% suggests this, I guess. Looking forward to hearing how the string works out for you longer term. Hopefully it will show the durability that Ashaway claims it has.

[corners]

Originally Posted by maggmaster

It hurt my arm, I have no problem with gut poly but this stuff beat my arm up pretty good.

Sorry to hear that. How was string movement? I ask because, as I mention above, when the mains slide and snapback dwell time is increased and anytime you lengthen dwell time shock is decreased. I think this is the reason why gut/poly is so comfortable - the elastic gut slides and snaps back giving very long dwell time - kind of like the gut mains catch the ball and then throw it back out. If the ZX is "moving" or getting stuck out of line this would suggest that it's not snapping back and you'd lose that extra dwell time.

[mikeler]

Originally Posted by corners

Sorry to hear that. How was string movement? I ask because, as I mention above, when the mains slide and snapback dwell time is increased and anytime you lengthen dwell time shock is decreased. I think this is the reason why gut/poly is so comfortable - the elastic gut slides and snaps back giving very long dwell time - kind of like the gut mains catch the ball and then throw it back out. If the ZX is "moving" or getting stuck out of line this would suggest that it's not snapping back and you'd lose that extra dwell time.

I don't think you can buy the RSI stiffness numbers on this one. The Dynamite is fairly stiff or firm even at 50 pounds in my Exo Tours.

[Torres]

Hold your horses everyone! Just had another 1.5 hours of drills/matchplays and this string feels quite different to what it was like in the first hour....

Second report to follow.

[corners]

Originally Posted by mikeler

I don't think you can buy the RSI stiffness numbers on this one. The Dynamite is fairly stiff or firm even at 50 pounds in my Exo Tours.

I always buy the stiffness numbers because it is a very straightforward property of the strings that is easily measured. Whether or not it feels as "soft" as the stiffness number would suggest is another story, but the measured stiffness is a known fact, regardless of how it feels. But I know what you mean. I'm just opposed to the knee-jerk reaction that I hear sometimes on the board that if a string doesn't feel like the stiffness measurement suggests, then the stiffness measurement is bogus. I think this is very unwise. It's like admitting that we don't understand something and then, instead of searching for more facts to improve our understanding, we throw away one of the few facts that we posess. Doesn't make sense to me.

My hypothesis for your experience with Dynamite remains the one I suggested earlier - that Dynamite, having the highest string on string friction of any strings tested, resists string movement and acts more or less as though the strings are locked in place. As I mentioned before, strings that are free to slide increase dwell time and thereby reduce impact shock. But there is something else that could be at play here that is related. The lab stiffness numbers are taken from lengths of string that are tensioned and then struck with a hammer with controlled force. The elongation of the string during that impact is measured and that's where the stiffness numbers come from. But in a racquet, the effective length of each string can be much shorter than the piece tested in the lab. If the strings were glued or bonded at the intersections, then each length would be as short as the distance between each intersection, so like 1 cm. Conversely, if the strings are slippery and free to slide around, the stretched length could be much longer, even as long as the entire grommet-to-grommet distance. It could be that short lengths of Zyex are disproportionately stiffer than long lengths, so that if the strings are relatively immobile they will actually be stiffer than if they were free to slide around. If this were the case, then you would be right - we should not buy the stiffness numbers we have because they are derived from a longer length of string than what is actually being stretched in a strung racquet. Just a guess, really, and I hope I'm making sense.

If this were the case, though, it could also help explain the stiff feeling Torres experienced on the edges of the stringbed with the slippery ZX.

[corners]

Originally Posted by Torres

Hold your horses everyone! Just had another 1.5 hours of drills/matchplays and this string feels quite different to what it was like in the first hour....

Second report to follow.

Holy cow! On the edge of my seat!

[mikeler]

Originally Posted by corners

I always buy the stiffness numbers because it is a very straightforward property of the strings that is easily measured. Whether or not it feels as "soft" as the stiffness number would suggest is another story, but the measured stiffness is a known fact, regardless of how it feels. But I know what you mean. I'm just opposed to the knee-jerk reaction that I hear sometimes on the board that if a string doesn't feel like the stiffness measurement suggests, then the stiffness measurement is bogus. I think this is very unwise. It's like admitting that we don't understand something and then, instead of searching for more facts to improve our understanding, we throw away one of the few facts that we posess. Doesn't make sense to me.

My hypothesis for your experience with Dynamite remains the one I suggested earlier - that Dynamite, having the highest string on string friction of any strings tested, resists string movement and acts more or less as though the strings are locked in place. As I mentioned before, strings that are free to slide increase dwell time and thereby reduce impact shock. But there is something else that could be at play here that is related. The lab stiffness numbers are taken from lengths of string that are tensioned and then struck with a hammer with controlled force. The elongation of the string during that impact is measured and that's where the stiffness numbers come from. But in a racquet, the effective length of each string can be much shorter than the piece tested in the lab. If the strings were glued or bonded at the intersections, then each length would be as short as the distance between each intersection, so like 1 cm. Conversely, if the strings are slippery and free to slide around, the stretched length could be much longer, even as long as the entire grommet-to-grommet distance. It could be that short lengths of Zyex are disproportionately stiffer than long lengths, so that if the strings are relatively immobile they will actually be stiffer than if they were free to slide around. If this were the case, then you would be right - we should not buy the stiffness numbers we have because they are derived from a longer length of string than what is actually being stretched in a strung racquet. Just a guess, really, and I hope I'm making sense.

If this were the case, though, it could also help explain the stiff feeling Torres experienced on the edges of the stringbed with the slippery ZX.

You also have to look at how the string stiffness test is done. For cost reasons, it does not mimic hitting a thousand balls off a tennis racket.

I'll post this in my multis thread as well, but I broke the Dynamite last night after only 3 sets of singles and 3 sets of doubles. It was a little warmer last night and just perfect conditions for tennis. The Dynamite was feeling absolutely terrific, no arm issues whatsoever. My forehand was finally coming out of a 2 month hibernation and then the darn string broke. I'm guessing the tension loss helped. The final measurement I got off RacquetTune was 11.1%.

One interesting thing about this string is that my 2nd serve was really good. I felt like I was almost hitting 2 first serves because of the confidence that I would not miss. Touch with this string is poor though. All in all an interesting string test.

[corners]

Originally Posted by mikeler

You also have to look at how the string stiffness test is done. For cost reasons, it does not mimic hitting a thousand balls off a tennis racket.

Are you talking about their tension loss simulation? There I agree with you - I think hitting the string twenty times with a hammer with a force meant to simulate a 120 mph serve sounds good in principle, but it appears to me that it is actually too agressive. TWU's testing shows that copolys lose 20+ pounds of tension, which is more than in real life, IMHO. However, the synguts lose half as much and natural gut loses even less, so at least the testing is an accurate reflection of how much better gut is than syngut and syngut than copoly.

As far as their stiffness tests go, they use a 3.3 cm length of string. As I mentioned upthread, using a 1-1.5 cm length might be a better idea.

I'll post this in my multis thread as well, but I broke the Dynamite last night after only 3 sets of singles and 3 sets of doubles. It was a little warmer last night and just perfect conditions for tennis. The Dynamite was feeling absolutely terrific, no arm issues whatsoever. My forehand was finally coming out of a 2 month hibernation and then the darn string broke. I'm guessing the tension loss helped. The final measurement I got off RacquetTune was 11.1%.

One interesting thing about this string is that my 2nd serve was really good. I felt like I was almost hitting 2 first serves because of the confidence that I would not miss. Touch with this string is poor though. All in all an interesting string test.

You might try ZX next Dynamite mains/ZX crosses might be really good too. The slippery ZX crosses should reduce notching of the Dynamite mains somewhat and the string movement and snapback you should get would reduce impact force by prolonging dwell time. Dynamite has such high ball-string friction that it would seem an excellent main string.

The problem with Dynamite has always been durability. The outer nylon braid is not really that tough, but it's meant to protect the thin strands of Zyex inside of it. Those strands tend to get sliced rather easily. A braid of Kevlar would probably be better but would be very expensive to make. The ZX, on the other hand, being a monofilament, should be much more durable than Dynamite. We'll see how long it lasts for Torres.

[Player#1]

I used a piece of the dynamite tough 16 to burn out a wood racket. The "tough" nylon coating came off and I was left with just the zyex multifilaments. The zyex filaments looked to have a diameter of 1.00mm-1.10mm. I am not surprised this string would break quickly; The nylon coating easily wears off, then you are basically left with a very very thin gauge zyex multifilament string.

[corners]

Originally Posted by Player#1

I used a piece of the dynamite tough 16 to burn out a wood racket. The "tough" nylon coating came off and I was left with just the zyex multifilaments. The zyex filaments looked to have a diameter of 1.00mm-1.10mm. I am not surprised this string would break quickly; The nylon coating easily wears off, then you are basically left with a very very thin gauge zyex multifilament string.

Yeah, the nylon braid doesn't hold up. Over the past couple years I've seen numerous board members become enthusiastic about Zyex because of its extremely low stiffness, but they usually abandon the string after again and again watching the outer braid fall apart and expose the thin zyex filaments inside. It's a bit like Isospeed Control strings, which have a very weak outer layer of polyolefin surrounding a wee little strand of nylon inside. I always wondered why Ashwaway didn't just make a monofilament out of Zyex. Now they have. Some of the reports we have suggest ZX is pretty notch resistant. If a player doesn't mind staying under the 60# tension limit this does seem like a very interesting string.