Llodra fined.

[phnx90]

Originally Posted by Bartelby

He added a word before Chinese and a word referring to the female genitalia after that word.

So he could be equally accused of gender hatred as well as race hatred but of course hardly a mention of the full insult anywhere.

If the word is "c_nt", then that isn't enough to qualify as misogyny.

Seriously, people are getting way too PC for their own good.

[Tammo]

Other people say stuff much worse than that every day. Llodra was just frustrated and wasn't thinking right because he was playing a match.

[aphex]

Wasn't the nadal clan equally racist against the French?
Why didn't they get fined?

[Bobby Jr]

Originally Posted by batz

Ethnicity and race are not the same thing. For example; it is perfectly feasible to be of Scottish ethnicity and be black. 'American' is a perfectly valid ethnicity.

It's quite obvious that I know that given the post of mine you quoted.

So you don't have to scroll back up I said: "Because "Chinese" has clear and obvious ethnic connotations (Asian)..." - which it does. Chinese people are ethnically Asian - currently and historically. It doesn't mean every single Chinese person is of Asian ethnicity - but they're pretty close.

"... whereas "Americans"does not." - 'American' isn't a race, it is merely a reference to a location (USA) where there is no one clear ethnic group which dominates as is the case in China. It's multi-ethnic.

The only people who could say, in normal terms, with any general understanding and use of the term to be ethnically American are American Indians. "White" Americans are predominantly anglo-saxon in their ethnicity. This group is even called Anglo-American and you can tell their broad ethnic origins by the fact they speak English, have English lineage and English cultural histories going back only a relatively short period in historical terms. Most other ethnicities in America of course also speak English, but for different reasons - they were forced to or had to in order to integrate.

[phnx90]

Originally Posted by aphex

Wasn't the nadal clan equally racist against the French?
Why didn't they get fined?

Because the French love Rafa.

[aphex]

Originally Posted by phnx90

Because the French love Rafa.

Yeah...the nadal is lucky that the great French people are so forgiving and gracious.

Imagine how the Spaniards would react if subjected to the same, despicable ethnic slurs...

[magnut]

Its racist because it refers to culture and people are not allowed to be refered to as cultural anymore unless they are a minority.

Example....An african American can refer to another African American as Black (or even the N word) or a Caucasion as whitey (Honkey in the old days) but a white cannot say anything that pertains to a cultural label. Instead that white person is to address all minorities as sir or mam.

I dont make the rules. Its just the way it is. Its a political based model based around making everyone hate each other.

I say ban that racist frenchy for life!

[phnx90]

Originally Posted by aphex

Yeah...the nadal is lucky that the great French people are so forgiving and gracious.

Imagine how the Spaniards would react if subjected to the same, despicable ethnic slurs...

Looks like we'll just have to wait it out until a player is hated collectively by a Spanish audience first.

[magnut]

Originally Posted by phnx90

Looks like we'll just have to wait it out until a player is hated collectively by a Spanish audience first.

Nadal gets away with it because he is kind of a special needs case. Its pretty hard to label someone a racist when they have a mental disorder like Rafa. Nadal has learned to take his handicap though and turn it into a strength.

[joechiang]

Woww,this thread is epic for me.
Just clarify two things:
1.the girl is a Korean American,has nothing to do with Chinese.
2.Maybe Llodra was only insulting one person,but translating it directly into Chinese is not like that.Maybe it's only different language habits problem.
As Llodra also said"putain foutu chatte chinois"to the girl,and his so-called apology is really impressive,I learn a lot from the civilized world people.

[aphex]

I don't think he was as racist as the Spanish national basketball team.

[DjokovicForTheWin]

It was obviously racist. I mean what's the point in him stating her race? or ethnicity or whatever? If you're angry at someone you call them a jerk. And you get your value out of the word jerk to express your feeling toward them. But then if you say 'black jerk', well what's the point of that? What additional value is there in adding the 'black' descriptor, other than racism? so I think he was quite obviously racist.

The bigger question is, is this wrong? Are people not allowed to be racist? Are neoNazis not allowed to play professional tennis?

[magnut]

Originally Posted by joechiang

Woww,this thread is epic for me.
Just clarify two things:
1.the girl is a Korean American,has nothing to do with Chinese.
2.Maybe Llodra was only insulting one person,but translating it directly into Chinese is not like that.Maybe it's only different language habits problem.
As Llodra also said"putain foutu chatte chinois"to the girl,and his so-called apology is really impressive,I learn a lot from the civilized world people.

I will see your clarification and raise you.....

That only actually matters if your Asian. For everyone else all Asian are considered Chinese.

Its like when New Zealand Kiwis get bent out of shape when people call them Ausies. The rest of the world does not really give a rip.

[Bartelby]

My guess is that he was focussed on an individual, but it is interesting that attitudes to women barely registered as compared to the race angle.

Originally Posted by li0scc0

Of course all of this diminishes the fact that he insulted, not a GROUP of people, but an INDIVIDUAL.

He wasn't being anti-women or anti-Chinese, but rather was insulting to a specific individual.

He should be fined. Not to the extent that Serena Williams was fined, of course, as he did not threaten to kill anybody. But he should be fined, as he insulted an individual.

[magnut]

Originally Posted by DjokovicForTheWin

It was obviously racist. I mean what's the point in him stating her race? or ethnicity or whatever? If you're angry at someone you call them a jerk. And you get your value out of the word jerk to express your feeling toward them. But then if you say 'black jerk', well what's the point of that? What additional value is there in adding the 'black' descriptor, other than racism? so I think he was quite obviously racist.

The bigger question is, is this wrong? Are people not allowed to be racist? Are neoNazis not allowed to play professional tennis?

Right he should have just said...."that woman". Then we could say he is shovenist pig instead of racist. Better yet.... call her a skinny or fat woman. Then we could say he is discrimatory towards fat or thin people.

Ah, it just never ends does it.

[joechiang]

Originally Posted by magnut

I will see your clarification and raise you.....

That only actually matters if your Asian. For everyone else all Asian are considered Chinese.

Its like when New Zealand Kiwis get bent out of shape when people call them Ausies. The rest of the world does not really give a rip.

I learn a new thing.That's sweet.

[phnx90]

Originally Posted by magnut

Nadal gets away with it because he is kind of a special needs case. Its pretty hard to label someone a racist when they have a mental disorder like Rafa. Nadal has learned to take his handicap though and turn it into a strength.

Yeah, see now that's just downright insulting.

Originally Posted by DjokovicForTheWin

It was obviously racist. I mean what's the point in him stating her race? or ethnicity or whatever? If you're angry at someone you call them a jerk. And you get your value out of the word jerk to express your feeling toward them. But then if you say 'black jerk', well what's the point of that? What additional value is there in adding the 'black' descriptor, other than racism? so I think he was quite obviously racist.

The bigger question is, is this wrong? Are people not allowed to be racist? Are neoNazis not allowed to play professional tennis?

For most people, "jerk" does not suffice when they're properly ****ed-off. Words like "f_cking" tend to be the go-to word, but that in itself is an emphasis, so does not mean anything. Plus, it was directed at someone, so he would've instinctively looked for a word to describe the person. She was female and Asian, so the choices would've probably been either "chienne" or "chinois". Regardless of which he chose, he'd have been labelled a hater of one form or another.

Should racist people be allowed to play tennis? Of course, because then we ought to practice what we preach. Can't exclude people on their beliefs, unfounded or otherwise, just the same way we shouldn't make judgments on other people on their colour, unfounded or otherwise.

[Bartelby]

China is also multi-ethnic, and race is not really a useful term.

The fact is that referring to any ethnic or national group in a derogatory manner could be regarded as racist in popular terms.

If you take what Llodra said and substituted American for Chinese it could be construed as racist.

Originally Posted by Bobby Jr

It's quite obvious that I know that given the post of mine you quoted.

So you don't have to scroll back up I said: "Because "Chinese" has clear and obvious ethnic connotations (Asian)..." - which it does. Chinese people are ethnically Asian - currently and historically. It doesn't mean every single Chinese person is of Asian ethnicity - but they're pretty close.

"... whereas "Americans"does not." - 'American' isn't a race, it is merely a reference to a location (USA) where there is no one clear ethnic group which dominates as is the case in China. It's multi-ethnic.

The only people who could say, in normal terms, with any general understanding and use of the term to be ethnically American are American Indians. "White" Americans are predominantly anglo-saxon in their ethnicity. This group is even called Anglo-American and you can tell their broad ethnic origins by the fact they speak English, have English lineage and English cultural histories going back only a relatively short period in historical terms. Most other ethnicities in America of course also speak English, but for different reasons - they were forced to or had to in order to integrate.

[DjokovicForTheWin]

Originally Posted by phnx90

Yeah, see now that's just downright insulting.
For most people, "jerk" does not suffice when they're properly ****ed-off. Words like "f_cking" tend to be the go-to word, but that in itself is an emphasis, so does not mean anything. Plus, it was directed at someone, so he would've instinctively looked for a word to describe the person. She was female and Asian, so the choices would've probably been either "chienne" or "chinois". Regardless of which he chose, he'd have been labelled a hater of one form or another.

'Jerk' was just an example. Could have been 'Effing Jerk' or stupid F jerk, etc, etc Doesn't matter. You are angry at them and the words you choose should stand for what you feel. There is no value in pointing out she is chinese from a purely anger standpoint. So what if she was female and Asian? What's the point in pointing it out??????? The only reason is if he were racist towards chinese. What does he gain by saying she is chinese? All he needs to do is look at her and call her 'stupid' or 'biche' or whatever. Why chinese?

Originally Posted by phnx90

Should racist people be allowed to play tennis? Of course, because then we ought to practice what we preach. Can't exclude people on their beliefs, unfounded or otherwise, just the same way we shouldn't make judgments on other people on their colour, unfounded or otherwise.

Then he shouldn't have been fined for being racist, which he clearly was.

[DjokovicForTheWin]

In China if a chinese person said "damn american", that would be racist there. Here it's the reverse.