How tough would Curren have been for McEnroe in the 83 Wimbledon final?

[kiki]

Originally Posted by timnz

Being a New Zealander we were very proud of Chris Lewis at the time. However, the question I had was what if Connors had gotten past Curren and Lewis? The fact that Connors had beaten McEnroe at Queen's makes me think that he had a very good chance of beating him at Wimbledon. He was the defending champion having beaten McEnroe in the previous years final as well and went on to win the US Open that year as well.

Wilding,Parun and Lewis...not bad for just 3,5 M hab¡¡¡

[timnz]

Originally Posted by krosero

Mac was playing better in '83, partly due to his switch to graphite, which did have an impact on his game. I'd give Mac an edge in an '83 rematch.

And yet Connors beat McEnroe in straight sets in the Queen's Club final only weeks before.

[krosero]

Originally Posted by timnz

And yet Connors beat McEnroe in straight sets in the Queen's Club final only weeks before.

True and on that basis Connors might have been called the odds-on favorite at the time (don't know if he actually was). I'm just talking about a hypothetical meeting, where we have the advantage of hindsight. We know how well Mac played at the '83 Wimbledon. Better than in '82, I'd say.

[Mustard]

Connors did the Queen's Club and Wimbledon double over McEnroe in 1982.

[jrepac]

Originally Posted by gavna

He was using the Kramer Pro Staff until 84......then switched to Knissel. I don't know where you get JMac had issues with pace? In 83 and 84 he dominated Lendl and Conners both who creamed the ball. He was 8 - 2 vs Lendl those 2 years and most of the time He won in straights. JMac in 83 and 84 was playing at his highest level - the 85 McEnroe was nowhere the same player thats when he started to drop off and have to deal with the BS from Tatum. Also JMac owned Curren as well he is 9 - 1 lifetime and the only aberration was the Wimby loss.
McEnroe never had issues with pace - he ate up guys like Tanner or Noah who all had big games.

Mac was very good in '83, but not in top form; he was somewhat inconsistent (by Mac standards). Agree, Mac did not hate pace; he could usually blunt it, unless the guy hit right thru him...which did not happen often.

[jrepac]

Originally Posted by kiki

...it could also look like their 84 final...

doubtful...'83 Mac was nowhere near '84 Mac

[Frankc]

Just a thought, back in the memory bank (way back) I remember seeing Curren very late in his career with a Prestige and lead tape...

[Moose Malloy]

doubtful...'83 Mac was nowhere near '84 Mac

He lost only one set at '83 Wimbledon(same as '84 Wimbledon)
You should watch the Lendl match if you can find it, it was pretty impressive.
hard seeing anyone troubling him in the final that year.

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by Moose Malloy

He lost only one set at '83 Wimbledon(same as '84 Wimbledon)
You should watch the Lendl match if you can find it, it was pretty impressive.
hard seeing anyone troubling him in the final that year.

What about Connors? McEnroe had only dropped 1 set in making the 1982 Wimbledon final before Connors beat McEnroe in a 5 set final.

[jrepac]

Originally Posted by Mustard

What about Connors? McEnroe had only dropped 1 set in making the 1982 Wimbledon final before Connors beat McEnroe in a 5 set final.

Yes, I saw the Lendl-Mac semi in '83 and Mac WAS impressive. But, Mac squaring off against Connors on grass is another matter altogether. Connors had just creamed Lendl the week before at Queens, then also beat Mac in straight sets, so he was on form. The Curren match was really very close and an upset in the truest sense. Granted, anything can happen in a final, but based on recent form, I think it would have been quite close.

I think Chris Lewis was nowhere near the caliber of player needed to challenge Mac on grass; Lewis reaching the final was a great accomplishment, but one of those great tennis history flukes.

[Xavier G]

Originally Posted by krosero

Mac was playing better in '83, partly due to his switch to graphite, which did have an impact on his game. I'd give Mac an edge in an '83 rematch.

Mac was better in 83 and I may have picked him myself, but Connors had won their last few grass court meetings, though the 1982 Wimbledon final was not a great match.

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by Xavier G

though the 1982 Wimbledon final was not a great match.

Scrappy is the word that comes to mind about that match rather than dramatic. Whether that's good or not depends on your point of view. It was great for Connors to win it after being a semi final and quarter final loser for so long at the majors.

[Xavier G]

Originally Posted by Mustard

Scrappy is the word that comes to mind about that match rather than dramatic. Whether that's good or not depends on your point of view. It was great for Connors to win it after being a semi final and quarter final loser for so long at the majors.

Scrappy and uneven quality of play, but I was rooting for Connors that day. Mac had the chance to win in the fourth set tiebreak, but it seemed like Jimmy was going to win that day. In fact, this year was Jimbo's great chance with Borg gone. McEnroe seemed slightly unsure of himself that year and I think he had been coming back from an ankle injury picked up in Brussels or somewhere. I was glad Jimmy won in 1982.

[jrepac]

Originally Posted by Mustard

Scrappy is the word that comes to mind about that match rather than dramatic. Whether that's good or not depends on your point of view. It was great for Connors to win it after being a semi final and quarter final loser for so long at the majors.

Scrappy is a good word; I think it was a very tense match and a dramatic win.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by jrepac

doubtful...'83 Mac was nowhere near '84 Mac

No, he was more or less the same player.A bit, but not much better in 84.

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by kiki

No, he was more or less the same player.A bit, but not much better in 84.

I disagree. McEnroe in 1984 took his game up to a whole different level. Connors was playing almost as well in 1984 as in the previous 2 years.

1982 Queen's Club F: Jimmy Connors def. John McEnroe (7-5, 6-3)
1982 Wimbledon F: Jimmy Connors def. John McEnroe (3-6, 6-3, 6-7, 7-6, 6-4)

1983 Queen's Club F: Jimmy Connors def. John McEnroe (6-3, 6-3)

1984 Queen's Club SF: John McEnroe def. Jimmy Connors (6-2, 6-2)
1984 Wimbledon F: John McEnroe def. Jimmy Connors (6-1, 6-1, 6-2)

[subban]

"What about Connors? McEnroe had only dropped 1 set in making the 1982 Wimbledon final before Connors beat McEnroe in a 5 set final"

Mac mentions in his autobiography that Connors during the two weeks of '82wimbeldon asked him to be his practice partner because Connors was thinking of joining Davis Cup. McEnroe realised after the tournament that Connors had tricked him and was using him to get used to his style on Wimbeldon grass and Connors was never serious about playing Davis Cup. Mac said this was the main reason why Connors beat him at the '82 Wimbeldon.

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by subban

"What about Connors? McEnroe had only dropped 1 set in making the 1982 Wimbledon final before Connors beat McEnroe in a 5 set final"

Mac mentions in his autobiography that Connors during the two weeks of '82wimbeldon asked him to be his practice partner because Connors was thinking of joining Davis Cup. McEnroe realised after the tournament that Connors had tricked him and was using him to get used to his style on Wimbeldon grass and Connors was never serious about playing Davis Cup. Mac said this was the main reason why Connors beat him at the '82 Wimbeldon.

Sounds like a case of sour grapes to me. Arthur Ashe was regularly trying to talk Connors into playing Davis Cup. I've also heard McEnroe blame Borg's absence for the loss in the 1982 Wimbledon final. Talk about clutching at straws as Borg hadn't actually retired at that point and was expected to come back soon enough.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by Mustard

Sounds like a case of sour grapes to me. Arthur Ashe was regularly trying to talk Connors into playing Davis Cup. I've also heard McEnroe blame Borg's absence for the loss in the 1982 Wimbledon final. Talk about clutching at straws as Borg hadn't actually retired at that point and was expected to come back soon enough.

I wouldn´t be surprised if it was a sour grape case...but I wouldn´t either, if it was true.Connors was a real SOB

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by kiki

I wouldn´t be surprised if it was a sour grape case...but I wouldn´t either, if it was true.Connors was a real SOB

And McEnroe wasn't?

Although thinking about it, Connors would have known that Davis Cup sentiment was a weakness of McEnroe's. Connors never much cared for Davis Cup.