Main differences between a 4.5 and a 5.5

[mib]

Originally Posted by OrangePower

Main difference is: 4.5 is just a recreational hacker, vs 5.5 is a tennis player

Not meant as an insult since I am a 4.5 myself, but at 5.0 and below, we do not have complete games. Whereas players at 5.5+ have complete games - all the shots, footwork, and physical skills.

Why do you say this? I am a 4.0/4.5 and I think my game (and the game of many other players at this level) is fairly complete. Of course, a player who is just a little faster, a little more consistent, a bit more precise and hits a little harder would beat me every time. After all, even someone with exactly the same game as me but two steps faster getting to the ball would beat me any time. Does not mean that his game is more complete than mine.

[OrangePower]

Originally Posted by mib

Why do you say this? I am a 4.0/4.5 and I think my game (and the game of many other players at this level) is fairly complete. Of course, a player who is just a little faster, a little more consistent, a bit more precise and hits a little harder would beat me every time. After all, even someone with exactly the same game as me but two steps faster getting to the ball would beat me any time. Does not mean that his game is more complete than mine.

Again, I'm not trying to insult anyone - I am only a 4.5 myself. But if you are 4.0/4.5 and you think your game is complete, you are going to be in for a rude awakening if/when you play a 5.5+.

Do you have a topspin BH passing shot that you can hit on the run? Can you make 90% of overheads from behind the service line? Do you have placement and variety (kick, slice, twist) on your 2nd serve? Etc, etc. A 5.5+ is going to have all that.

[LeeD]

Heck, I can hit clean BH topspin running shots, have the kick, slice, topslice, and flat serves WITH placement, and I"m still a 4.0, and a bad one at that. Overheads from NML, easy.
I agree with OP, 4-4.5 is not a very good level, since I can claim 4.0 and play an average of once a week.

[mib]

Originally Posted by OrangePower

Again, I'm not trying to insult anyone - I am only a 4.5 myself. But if you are 4.0/4.5 and you think your game is complete, you are going to be in for a rude awakening if/when you play a 5.5+.

Do you have a topspin BH passing shot that you can hit on the run? Can you make 90% of overheads from behind the service line? Do you have placement and variety (kick, slice, twist) on your 2nd serve? Etc, etc. A 5.5+ is going to have all that.

Actually, I can hit these shots. Of course, a 5.5 will hit them harder, more precisely (especially the second serve) and, most importantly, more consistently. And, likely, he will get to the ball earlier to hit an easier shot as well. I don't have any chance against a 5.5, but it is not because of completeness but because of inferior speed and execution.

[OrangePower]

Originally Posted by LeeD

Heck, I can hit clean BH topspin running shots, have the kick, slice, topslice, and flat serves WITH placement, and I"m still a 4.0, and a bad one at that. Overheads from NML, easy.
I agree with OP, 4-4.5 is not a very good level, since I can claim 4.0 and play an average of once a week.

Originally Posted by mib

Actually, I can hit these shots. Of course, a 5.5 will hit them harder, more precisely (especially the second serve) and, most importantly, more consistently. And, likely, he will get to the ball earlier to hit an easier shot as well. I don't have any chance against a 5.5, but it is not because of completeness but because of inferior speed and execution.

Perhaps we are getting hung up on terminology... when I say 'can hit these shots' I mean can do it *consistently* and when under pressure, not once in a while when things go right.

If you guys can do that, then my friends you are better than any 4.5s I know!

[mib]

Originally Posted by OrangePower

Perhaps we are getting hung up on terminology... when I say 'can hit these shots' I mean can do it *consistently* and when under pressure, not once in a while when things go right.

If you guys can do that, then my friends you are better than any 4.5s I know!

Perhaps we are For me having a complete game means being able to execute various shots in gameplay and play tactically correct tennis.

It is a little hard to say what "under pressure" means since the amount of pressure on the same shot depends on the skill of your opponent.

[Loose Cannon]

Originally Posted by bluetrain4

Great post, very enlightening, and so true. It's always an eye opener to play someone who is better than you, on another level.

Sometimes I think people don't understand all of the levels of tennis skill. I'm a pretty good 4.5 player. If someone were to watch me hit the ball and play a little, they'd generally think I know what I'm doing, that I'm in some sense "good." But, a lot of people make this determination based simply on things they can readily see - "he can hit with spin, he can hit hard, his strokes look solid, etc.), and don't really acknowledge the intangibles - consistency, placement, tactics, fitness, ability to adjust to opponent, positioning, which really set different levels of tennis players apart. Most 4.5 players when just hitting back and forth with a 5.5, will look fine, not a huge difference. But that's not the case when play begins, as you noted.

Where I live, there's a set of guys who play a lot of tournaments, but there is also a set of decent players who don't play tournaments. Plus, there's a lot of lower rated guys who you just know from around the park, who you've hit with at one time or another who don't play tournaments.

It's always funny when I come back from a tournament and some guys will ask me how I did. So, for example, I report back that I lost in the first round 6-3, 6-2 (which I did to a 5.0 player in an open tournament two weeks ago), and they'll be dumbfounded - "you lost that bad?" I just cringe and laugh. They don't get it. They think I should win based on my play against them, where I look great because I'm better and in control of the point and doing what I want. They don't seem to understand that a better player will never really let you be in control, impose your game, and you end up looking (and feeling) much worse. And, the 5.0 player who beat me in the 1st Rnd went on to lose 6-4, 6-0 in the next round to some 6.0ish college kid (Blake Baznarik from Vandy). Again, levels. [BTW, I'm very happy I drew the 5.0 player in the first round. At least I could get into rallies, control a few points, win some games, actually "play" tennis. Against a 6.0 college stud, it probably would have been very ugly. LOL.]

So true....so true

[purple-n-gold]

Alot

0 and 0 for the 5.0...err 5.5

Originally Posted by OrangePower

Main difference is: 4.5 is just a recreational hacker, vs 5.5 is a tennis player

Not meant as an insult since I am a 4.5 myself, but at 5.0 and below, we do not have complete games. Whereas players at 5.5+ have complete games - all the shots, footwork, and physical skills.

Put another way, you can get to 4.5 and even 5.0 with limitations - do not have to have been trained as a kid, can have some bad habits with technique, can be older / not in prime physical shape, etc. Whereas, to be at 5.5 you need to have had rigorous coaching / training (at least at some point in the past), and you need to be in good physical condition.

4.5 is not a recreational hacker. 4.0 - 3.0 are rec hackers.

[LeeD]

I'm a pretty established 4.0, any league. I can stay here by playing once a week, or once a month, so 4.0 is hack tennis.

[OrangePower]

Originally Posted by decades

4.5 is not a recreational hacker. 4.0 - 3.0 are rec hackers.

Lemme guess, you're a 4.5?

I'm a 4.5, as are most of the people in my playing circle, and yeah, we're all rec hackers. We all have pretty obvious weaknesses and undeveloped parts of our games. Same goes for all the 4.5s I play against in league.

[LeeD]

I guess you're not a hack if you can consistently pick up low and half volleys and push them deep to the corner of your choice, you can aim your first AND second serves to within 4' of your choice of target, you know when to play it safe, when to attack, you can cover to within 2' of either sideline, and you don't give your opponent a chance to hit his favorite strong shot.
That's playing against your peers.

[mib]

Originally Posted by decades

4.5 is not a recreational hacker. 4.0 - 3.0 are rec hackers.

That is a strange and arbitrary distinction to make. 4.5 are good players but there are many people who are better, sometimes much better. In addition all levels except for the pros and serious college players are recreational.

[jdubbs]

I would agree and say im the best of the hackers. A good solid 4.5 or 5.0 could beat me most days unless i really commit to this game wholeheatedly.

I basically try to emulate a pro type game, with varied results. Im finding fitness the hardest part to maintain because dont like working out all that much and like my social drinking.

[t135]

Great conversation. Fitness is the deal in my opinion. Got to be fit to play good 4.0 and above singles and win consistently. After fitness it's the little differences in strokes strategy and mental toughness.

And doubles is another ball of wax at levels above 4.5 in my opinion. In doubles it really gets down to executing great strokes with effective strategy to win consistently.

[LeeD]

You need fitness to succeed in 4.0 + only if you can't hit forcing shots and winners contantly.
But at 5.5, you need both fitness and ball striking cababillities.

[JoelDali]

Could Oprah ever be a 4.5 if she paid for the best coaching money could buy?

[t135]

In order to hit "forcing shots" and "winners constantly" and win; a player has to get to the ball, get in position to hit the right shot, hit the shot, recover and get in position to hit the next shot. And hit most shots with power and usually spin. Serving and volleying, taking trips into the net to close points, backing up to hit overheads, etc. This all takes a lot of energy. Especially if the opponent is a consistent defensive player. And then it's 90 degrees and 70% humidity at match time.

Being a 4.5 and higher isn't about hitting winner after winner. It's real tennis just like you see on TV...if you're playing legit players. Of course I live in one of the biggest tennis towns in the USA and there are never any gimme matches in singles. Nobody gives up and everybody retrieves everything, especially on clay. I can't remember the last time I played someone who didn't fight tooth and nail to the finish. I'm a solid player with a complete game who can dominate anyone who isn't a high 4.5. Until I get tired.

Then I start getting to the ball a little late or am slightly out of position. Errors creep in. Gets harder to push with legs into serve, etc. The other player starts to scramble even harder hoping to capitalize.

Someone would have to be out of touch with real competitive tennis to think that fitness isn't the cornerstone of consistent winning tennis above the 3.5 level. Or play in an area with a bunch of hacks who cant hit more than two real shots in the court during a point.

[Rjtennis]

The main difference I have noticed beyond 5.0 is the speed, fitness and consistency. They really shrink the court on you and can turn defense to offense on a dime. Like others have said, they are extremely solid from all parts of the court, but it is the speed, consistency, fitness and footwork that amaze me the most.

[Rjtennis]

Originally Posted by LeeD

I guess you're not a hack if you can consistently pick up low and half volleys and push them deep to the corner of your choice, you can aim your first AND second serves to within 4' of your choice of target, you know when to play it safe, when to attack, you can cover to within 2' of either sideline, and you don't give your opponent a chance to hit his favorite strong shot.
That's playing against your peers.

Who are my peers? People who dont work 50 hours a week and can spend a ton of hours on court and in the gym. Wish i could do that, but those arent really my peers.