wrist action on serves

[harryg]

I pretty much understand the wrist movement just before impact on a first serve.

But what about the second (kick) serve? Regular kick, not the twist variety. Since you got to come up at the ball. Does the wrist stays more locked?

Thanks

[LeeD]

Most players switch the grip more towards EBH from conti for the second serve, adding more spin, less ball speed, and similar amount of pronation, not wrist snap.

[anchorage]

The amount of pronation on the second serve is partly a function of the amount of shoulder rotation.

For example, I stay more side on for the kick serve; there's still a shoulder over shoulder element but I don't need quite the same amount of pronation to 'square' and rip up the back of the ball.

Of course, you 'come up' to the ball on every serve & there should be pronation on every serve. The wrist should not be locked.

[KayFactor]

How does pronation on the kick serve look like? Or feel like, at least?

[mightyrick]

Originally Posted by KayFactor

How does pronation on the kick serve look like? Or feel like, at least?

It took me six months to develop a super-spinny moderately decent kick serve. I tried all sorts of suggestions and watched vidoes (FYB, etc) to get the feel for the shot. Nothing worked.

Then, I came across a gem of a video by Brent Abel (the webtennis guy on Youtube). In his kick serve video, he tells people to do a drill where they stand in service position at the baseline... and try to hit the HIGHEST serve you possibly can... but still get the ball in the target service box. At times, I had high arcing serves that were probably nearly 25 feet high.

That drill changed my game.

To get the ball as high as possible, it forces you to do varying degrees of three things:

1) Toss the ball over your head
2) Hit UP on the ball
3) Swing Faster

Give it a try, you might be very surprised at the results.

[TennisCJC]

Originally Posted by KayFactor

How does pronation on the kick serve look like? Or feel like, at least?

I don't overthink the pronation bit. Thoughts that help me a bit are:

1. put topspin on the ball. I think brush it up and to the right (I'm righthanded). For heavy spin like topspin/kick, or slice; I don't think you pronate as early in the contact as you want to brush the ball just like a topspin groundstroke. If you pronate early, you will have a more flat/slap type of contact.
2. attack the ball with the edge of the racket. This relates to number 1 as you want to attack the contact point on edge so you can brush the ball.
3. hitting hand is outside of the contact point. Angle from hitting hand to contact point looks like \ (backslash). Watch YouTube of Sam Stousor's kick serve and see how much angle she has between her hand and contact - it's a lot. This angle allows you to hit up and across rather than across.
4. Staying back (longer time with chest pointing to side) more with the shoulders also helps when hitting topspin/kick. Opening up the shoulders too much leads to flat or slice motion.

Pointer above about serving high over the net above is also very good. Brent Abel's stuff is good.

Don't stress out over pronation; just keep loose grip, attack on edge, brush it up to put some topspin on it, and finish strong.

[Ash_Smith]

Originally Posted by harryg

I pretty much understand the wrist movement just before impact on a first serve.

But what about the second (kick) serve? Regular kick, not the twist variety. Since you got to come up at the ball. Does the wrist stays more locked?

Thanks

Again, where's Toly when you need him!

TOLY!!!

cheers

[Chas Tennis]

Originally Posted by KayFactor

How does pronation on the kick serve look like? ................

I believe based on the bounce that this is a kick serve.

http://vimeo.com/40449753

I'm less sure that this is a kick serve. Close up.

http://vimeo.com/40449544

After looking at the complexity of timing & motions on these serves I decided that the kick serve might be tough to learn. I decided to work first on my forehand with a ball machine................

[mightyrick]

I found the video from Brent Abel on the kick serve. Really good stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gWAww8FSes